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Why you shouldn't use coils and colored light

Discussion in 'Bearded Dragons' started by Payton, Feb 7, 2015.

  1. Dragoness

    Dragoness Elite Member

    A brief perusal of the caresheets I see a few glaring issues.

    They recommend tube fluorescents, but fail utterly to mention that many of them will not project the UVB more than a certain distance (usually 12-18"). Mercury vapor is much more reliable for that. Putting a fluoro tube on top of your beardie tank does little if your beardie can't get right up underneath it. MVB's give you a little more leeway with that. Many MVB's project UVB up to 5 feet.

    10-12 years might be on the low end of life expectancy.

    In terms of thermal burns (which are mentioned in one of the link you posted) Thermal burns are burns solely from heat - such as putting your hand on a hot object, and getting blistered.

    In that respect, almost any unguarded heat source has the capacity to give thermal burns if your dragon gets too close to it, or comes in contact with it.

    I can take a temp gun to a CHE running full tilt, and get a reading of over 500ºF. Though red bulbs get hot too, none of them get that hot. The simple solution is to put a protective layer of hardware cloth between the heat source and your dragon to prevent contact...

    Or use something that provides heat but not light, and does not achieve dangerous temperatures, like a heat projector, or radiant heat panel. I don't believe either page discusses those options.

    I might have missed the spot it was mentioned, but I could not find the page discussing a diagnosis concerning a burned parietal eye, or how it was determined.
  2. murrindindi

    murrindindi Elite Member

    Hi again, thanks for the link to your website. I agree with some of the info, but there are other details that need clarification, but most of these do not concern infrared or other coloured bulbs yet they are still very important. Can you start on thread on housing and diet, etc (husbandry), so we can discuss these issues?
    You claim that infrared bulbs per se cause burns to the parieital eye, but as Jennifer (Dragoness) has said, ANY heat bulb of sufficient wattage can cause burns if it`s placed too close to the animal. I`ve used infrared bulbs on occasion over the years, and have NEVER had any problems with burns to any part of the body of any animal.
    The idea that if the lizard moves at all during the night means it`s "disturbed" is quite strange, are they supposed to lie completely motionless throughout?
    You state that if the dragon can get to within 4 to 8 inches of the basking bulb that it will be "happy", you fail to mention that some heat/basking bulbs have minimum distance requirements, that is quite disappointing, not to mention positively dangerous?
    I was being facetious rather than sarcastic, you mentioned you knew "heaps" and not only about lighting but other things too, and that you`ve been interested in Bearded dragons for 2 years. I personally have over 35 years experience with them both in the wild and captivity, but I`m still no "expert"...
    This thread IS about whether or not you know what you`re talking about, that`s precisely what RELIABLE info means!
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2015
    Merlin likes this.
  3. Payton

    Payton Active Member

    Usually you can read the box for this info :)

    That is the average lifespan.. 15 is maximum.

    Yes, true.. But they are more common with red bulbs.

    Yes, But the color that emits from the bulb is the problem as well.
  4. Payton

    Payton Active Member

    This is common sense, most basking bulbs can be placed at that length. If some have different distances, then i'm sorry.

    What i meant was, you are questioning me as if i'm 5 and treating me with disrespect. It does not matter if you have been doing it 35 years or 5 months.. What matters is how much they know. I have rescued many beardies and know a lot about them. I do not doubt you know plenty as well :) That's not what this thread was about.

    So.. The only thing you found on my website was the distance? Well. I guess it means i'm not as bad as you thought.. since I see many websites with extremely bad information. :) I always research everything before I 'advertise' it. Unless you have any more questions for me, the argument about whether or not I am experienced is done. :)

    Thank you. Please feel free to ask me anything else (with respect please)

  5. murrindindi

    murrindindi Elite Member

    Hi again, when you say that most basking bulbs can be placed to within 4 to 8 inches of the animal what wattage and type are you talking about?
    This very vague statement on your website could cause not only much confusion but some very serious burns. The point is that I suspect most of your "customers" will be beginners with no idea about safe distances/wattages, and even if the instructions are on the packaging it`s very easy to misinterpret something. I`ve been informed on more than one occasion that when using a MVB bulb (mercury vapour) the animal must be able to move 12inches away from the surface of it? In fact the instructions clearly state that the animal should be NO CLOSER than 12 inches from the face of the bulb, a complete misunderstanding which would have led to a serious burn...
    You have a responsibility to provide as much information as possible BEFORE advertising it on the website (you clearly haven`t).
    I would like to ask another question; are you "Joan" the vet nurse in the link you provided earlier?
    Lastly, there was/is no "argument" about anything, this is a serious discussion about some serious issues. With respect I would have to say your experience and knowledge seems to be quite limited judging by some of the info you present here.
    I`m disappointed that you aren`t interested in contacting Dr. Danny Brown, he is extremely experienced and knowledgeable and seems more than willing to pass that on (free of charge, too)!
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2015
  6. Payton

    Payton Active Member

    100 watt. As most basking bulbs don't get more than 150 watts. And that is the recommended height away from most bulbs. (that you find at petstores)

    That info wasn't about MVB it was about basking bulbs. And actually most people using these bulbs keep them at about 8 inches or 12. As long as they get the proper temps it dosen't matter the distance.

    I have put MORE info on my website than most. I'm sorry i'm not perfect..

    :) No, I am not. I will not continue this back and forth with someone who treats people like this.

    I'm pretty sure when you continuously try to find a fault/disagree with someone it's an argument. I should have never have told you that was my website.. All you want to do is look for faults. As I said before, I never said anything personal about you. so please don't do it to me. I'm sure you know a lot about reptiles as I know a lot.

    Thanks again :)

    Attached Files:

  7. Payton

    Payton Active Member

    Feel free to ask me questions about bulbs with respect if you wish :) I love helping people. Remember this post is about coil bulbs :)

  8. murrindindi

    murrindindi Elite Member

    You stated earlier that you would like to know what the "problems" were with the information on your website.
    Many keepers DO use MVB`s as basking bulbs, and a 100 to 150w "normal" basking bulb could cause serious burns if the animal is able to get within 4 inches of it`s surface.
    I am trying to HELP you by offering some reliable information, NOT argue!?
    I think it`s great that you want to help other people by starting up a website devoted to the captive care, but there are some very serious issues that need discussing and the information updating.
    I asked earlier if you would start a thread on general husbandry, will you do that? Thanks!

    Edit: I can`t see that small link you put up, can you enlarge it?
  9. Payton

    Payton Active Member

    No, I said about the link I provided :)
    4-8 means 4 is the closest you should get as it says on the box.
    You only said the distance was the problem. Is there more?

    Do you want me to put my knowledge into a caresheet? I will not put a post up so you can pick through my mistakes..

  10. Payton

    Payton Active Member

    I checked my posts over, I actually never asked for help on my website :) Although I do enjoy getting some tips (respectfully)
  11. murrindindi

    murrindindi Elite Member

    You wanted to know which parts were "outdated" (unreliable), THAT`S what I`m trying to get across!!!! ;)
  12. murrindindi

    murrindindi Elite Member

    Can you do me a favour and not quote each sentence separately (it`s taking all my computer screen up)!
  13. Payton

    Payton Active Member

    I asked for which parts were outdated in the link I posted about red bulb ;)
  14. Payton

    Payton Active Member

    It's easier to answer your many questions.
  15. Payton

    Payton Active Member

    As you can see, I was asking about the link :) not my website..
  16. murrindindi

    murrindindi Elite Member

  17. murrindindi

    murrindindi Elite Member

    Where is the evidence that infrared bulbs will cause burns to the parietal eye?
  18. murrindindi

    murrindindi Elite Member

    Most members are happy to discuss as many issues as possible in order to clarify and learn more (even if it means changing opinions and practices), it seems clear you are not, that`s a shame (most of all for the animals you keep)....
  19. Payton

    Payton Active Member

    Do you not read what I say? I clearly said I enjoy receiving tips.. I said about my website.. How dare you say my animals are not being treated well? We are done here. Thank you for the discussion but I will not pretend this is okay anymore.

    Have a good day
  20. Payton

    Payton Active Member

    I have changed many beardies lives by opening the minds of owners. I have gotten them to change to tube lights, better basking lights, better diet etc.. I have helped many people fix medical problems with them. Just because you disagree does not mean I don't take care of my animals. They are happy and healthy, thank you very much. I hope you and your animals have a great life...

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