Discussion in 'Reptile Law - Legal News' started by MoogleBass, Apr 6, 2009.
But if people stand around and do nothing it will.
I haven't posted on here in years and I just watched a video on youtube from my subscription talking about this. I think he set up a website for getting the bill from passing.
This site does not allow direct links to youtube.
I will keep calling, but they are not answering, or they are taking a REALLY LONG lunch I never figured it would get that bad up here, to where they stopped answering the phone. The link they provided was awesome to let you know who is the one in your district.
Why can we not have anyone intelligent making the laws?
There are some laws that need to be passed, but they need to be written up and proposed by someone with half a functioning brain.
If I read that link correctly, the ASPCA stand behind this 100 percent?
Here's the link to the site
NO HR 669
ASPCA and other animal activist groups have long lobbyed for the prevention of keeping pets of any sort.
That is very interesting. I will definitely be taking a little more time to read up on the ASPCA and exactly what they stand for. I was never under the impression that they wanted to ban keeping pets of all kinds. Just that they were tired of the cruelty and neglect, and ignorance, that the majority of us are.
I have never put them under a radical extremist group in my book. I donate a lot of money to them as I feel they do good work. I definitely have to look into this more.
I suppose I am going to be the lonely voice in supporting the "Rights" of native animals from being over run by non native species introduced by ignorant humans who can no longer care for their exotic pets.
What makes anyone feel that they have a "Right" to keep any animal? I may spend money on acquiring an animal but, I have never seen having a pet as personal property.
There are plenty of snakes that will not survive outdoors at a certain latitude. The problem is the owners that live north of a certain latitude drive down south to where I and others live to turn their animals loose!
I personally believe that pythons should only be available by permit. To sell and to buy just as alligators are here in Georgia.
I presently keep 2 ball pythons and one jungle carpet python. I believe the greater good is to protect the native species!
Just got off the phone with Brian. Over 1600 emails. That is great!!!
WE NEED ALOT MORE!!!!!
Get all the people you can.We need to stop this.
This is a very important weekend. We need to get enough emails and views to get the media in this.
Scott Smith's All Animal Expo
Scott Smith's All Animal Expo
Hey I always go to that show. It's 15 mins from my house
Well, I see a lot of valid points here... on both sides. While I agree that SOMETHING should be done to stop stupid people, I don't know that legislating "exotics" in general is a good thing. They need to be specific, IMHO... without being specific, it's a toothless and senseless law.
BUT, I live in Florida, and the non-native species problem that Og mentions is rampant here. In fact, just the other night, I came across the Florida Wildlife site that gives some pretty scary stats:
FWC - Nonnative Reptiles
What concerns me, as with everyone is that the bottom line is IGNORANT people who buy pets - no matter what kind - and then neglect them. And frankly, I too will have to look into the ASPCA more closely, because if this were to pass, what is to become of all the animals? Are THEY going to take them in??
More importantly, what enforcement is going to be behind this law? If it's just one more piece of paper that has no way of being enforced, then it's a failure from the outset. If the government can commit to house to house searches, then I guess they have something for enforcement. But, if my hunch is right, they don't.
I think that the bottom line is that perhaps this is an issue best left to individual states to legislate. For states like Florida, this is a hot topic. For many others, perhaps it's not.
I dunno... it seems like again, no one is truly looking out for what's best for the animals. And THAT should be the real focus.
That's EXACTLY what the problem is - there is no way to write laws so they only apply to idiots.
Og, You are not the only voice who is wanting permits for a lot of animals. You know that, just by reading my posts.
You know I am all for requiring permits for a lot of different species. You also know that I am all for stopping the ridiculous cruelty that goes on with these ignorant people, who do drive up where you and others live and dump them! It is absolutely cruel, heartless, and just plain mean, to not only the native species, but the one who is used to being fed by humans, then dumped to hopefully survive on it's own.
However in reading this whole thing, and putting weeks and weeks worth of thought into this, they are not going about it the right way.
You cannot just ban everything and expect that to be the answer to all these problems. They are not proposing that you have to have a permit, they are just going to ban them all period.
Permits and VERY STRICT regulations, and consequences are wonderful. People actually hired to enforce these rules to the MAXIMUM, would also be great.
Banning them will solve about 15 to 20 percent of the problem.
Basically it will stop the impulse purchases at pet stores, as they won't be there.
They banned heroin and cocaine, and meth, yet here we are with a serious drug problem in our country.
I do agree that there are a lot of species that need to be banned, being able to buy an alligator is just plain stupid in my opinion. That kind of garbage just needs to stop.
You are really not alone in where you stand. I think the majority of people on this forum will agree that there does need to be stricter laws and regulations regarding a lot of different species.
I am one of them who wholeheartedly believes this with every fiber of my being. I am tired of the suffering of the animals that are native and the animals that are not, by humans!
One thing I just want to know is, honestly.... your opinion....
How do you think this is going to solve all the problems you describe?
No, I am not being rude , I would just love to hear your theory on it
Dragoness - EXACTLY... just like the first idiot who burned themselves on McDonald's coffee and then sued, and now there's a warning that the coffee may be hot. Just like the first person who used Daily Shower Cleaner as shower gel, and then sued, and now there's a warning not to use the product as shower gel. All stupid people, and there is just no way to prevent stupidity - much as we wish it were different.
Those two statements I could not have said better myself!
Og, cruelty is not just in the exotics cases. It doesn't matter what kind of animal is out there. As long as they are there, there will always be horrible people that have no right to breathe the air that they breathe who abuse them.
I have learned a lot since I started cat rescue. There are many many more of them that are neglected and HORRIBLY ABUSED than there are reptiles up here. Granted there are a lot of reptiles abused and such, but the honest numbers of cats versus reptiles that are abused is a hands down winner. Unfortunate for the millions every year that are abused.
Horses are constantly seized up here for being starved, pigs, chickens, geese, goats, you name it, they seize it for cruelty.
So here is the point to that....Why are we not working on banning them? See how ridiculous that sounds.
Here is a little something out of the blue. Technically aren't dogs and cats considered exotic. Did they actually originate in the United States way back in the day.
I think I will have to look that one up, lol.
Sure there is, write these horribly strict laws and pass them. The only way you will suffer the consequences of these strict laws, are if you are one of these "idiots".
It will be a huge enlightening moment to a lot of people who really think they are not one of those big "idiots"
I know if they do pass this silly law, I will be doing everything in my power to keep my herps, preferably in a legitimate and legal way.
I wasn't referring to passing this law, jut the one that you proposed that pertains to idiots, lmao!
oh, I know. If only idiots could be banned from breeding. would solve many problems in a generation or two.
I guess I need clarification on this law. I thought this law would ban all exotic animals (ones not native to the us) from being imported here. And the current nonnative species that were already here, could continue to be bred and sold in the united states.
Also, I simply was asking people`s opinion on this. I didn't mean to insinuate that the "wealthier" could take better care of herps than the "poorer". I just thought, if Joe Blow goes into a pet store to buy a $7 anole because hey its just seven dollars, but then finds he would have to purchase one from a breeder elsewhere for $25, then he might reconsider such an impulse purchase.
And of course, if this law somehow prevents me from keeping my current herps I will be outraged. But sometimes I feel bad buying an animal, knowing there are just going to replace it with another one, and then another one , and another one. Sometimes I feel plain bad about just keeping pets in general. Knowing I caused more herps to be taken from the wild so they can go to homes and sit in tanks barely bigger than them hurts me. I love my animals and I have provided great housing for them so it takes the guilt off me a little...
But overall, it is not about us, its about the animals. It is not about what we want, but what is best for their lives. I think it is selfish to think any other way.
I don`t know if I want this to pass. I know if it does of course, it cannot completely stop. But for the 1 animal it prevents from coming into harms way, that is enough for me.
It would cause a lot of harm to others though, the United States pet trade is how lots of people in other countries make their money. Face it, the US is one of the only countries that pets are soooo popular.
People say we should do everything to help our economy but I think helping other's economy is good too. What happens if an iguana farm owner can't sell to the US anymore? what happens to all those iguanas on his farm and what happens to him and his family?
I think that permits are needed for large herps though. Honestly it should be very very hard to get a Burmese python, and a boa, and other huge snakes. We don't have any selling in petstores around here that I know of but I see them on craigslist all the time so maybe they were at one point. Or are around and I just haven't seen them.
I think it should go state by state as it has. I know that people bring them to another state to dump them, which I just don't understand at all. One it is more work (do they seriously think they are helping the animal?) and two it is hurting the state.
But how much of Flordia's problem is people from other states dumping animals? I guess not very much my guess is Florida people dumping pets is much more of an issue.
I want to help native species too, but I don't think this is the answer. A permit that requires you to take your herp to a check point once a year I think would be a good thing, if it dies, you must take the body there to prove it and a big fine if you don't bring it once a year. It could be controlled locally, those with little money can still have pets as it doesn't cost much if anything to bring it to check point, and it would stop dumping if you don't bring it you get a big fine. People could meet at check point to transfer papers in case of rehoming, and they could document if you gave to a shelter. I also think if you give an animal to a shelter you shouldn't be able to get another for at least a year.
Heck I think this would work with all animals not just herps.
WHY are we still complaining about permits and other **** when now is the time to fight this then work on everything else. Guess well just punch another 3 billion dollar hole in the economy and then put a lot of people out on the streets for the fact their hobby is their income.
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