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US HR 669! Act Now!

Discussion in 'Reptile Law - Legal News' started by MoogleBass, Apr 6, 2009.

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  1. MoogleBass

    MoogleBass Kittes are so nice! Premium Member

  2. katie41586

    katie41586 Elite Member

    Just curious..Does any think putting a ban on some exotic animals is a good idea?

    I for one, think the way they are harvested is cruel and would be happy if there was less imports in the pet trade. It may increase their cost sufficiently but at least that would discourage buyers who aren't serious about taking care of an animal.
  3. Dragoness

    Dragoness Elite Member

    I think endangered species should not be up for import unless certifiably captive bred.

    As to the rest, it's a tricky situation:

    just because someone has money does not mean they are dedicated to that animals proper care, just that they have money and the desire for an exotic animal.

    And just because someone is 'poor' does not mean they can't take good care of an exotic.

    It all boils down to education - how much time any given person is willing to put into learning the proper husbandry for that species.

    I live in Income-adjusted apartments, the cheapest ones in town, next door to utter trash. Most of my neighbors are dealers, and I get to hear police at all hours of the night. I have to juggle two jobs that are barely above minimum wage just to pay the rent here, yet all of my herps are in good health (and most weeks, they eat better than I do, lol). Anyone who is utterly devoted to their pets could do just as well, no matter the funding available. There are numerous resources available nowadays, people just have to find them and utilize them.
  4. nicole

    nicole Elite Member

    This is a catch 22 for me. They get you either way. There have already been some serious discussions on this matter I think.

    Would it stop some of the suffering, well yes it would, would it solve the problem and stop all of the suffering, no, I do not believe it is capable of that.

    I would really love to see this more species specific. Like for instance the green iguana. I am all for any bans on the importation and transporting, and breeding of them.

    Or how about the Sulcata tortoise, they are the number one dumped tortoise on rescues. The majority of people who buy those cute little hatchlings cannot handle them when they become earth moving tractors, lol.

    The ball python is another one that is constantly dumped on rescues. They are EVERYWHERE!

    The common boa, also sold as the red tail boa, but these are not the ones with the desired markings that people pay a lot for and care for.

    The burmese python

    The reticulated python

    Again, two snakes that the majority of people have no business even contemplating that impulse purchase.

    Dragoness, you have a very good point in the low income thing. However in my experiences you are the exception to the rule. Your great kind are few and far between.

    However with that last statement, they also need to ban cats too!

    Some people are just uneducated,

    Some people are just lazy,

    and some people are downright cruel!

    Either way, I think this law will not end ALL the suffering that goes on, it may help some, but it won't solve it all. It will just make it harder for rescues to step in if they pass the law on not transferring ownership or moving them across state lines.
  5. titus

    titus Elite Member Premium Member

    All in all this New version of the law is much more restictive. It would stop all trade in Exotics. Unless on the Approved List it would not only stop the import but captive breeding also. As well as place alot of your animals in harms way as you would need to show that they were bought legally.

    The states need to regulate themselves. No good will come from letting big goverment with out the guide of Exotic keeper groups create a list of banned species based on bias and False information.
  6. MoogleBass

    MoogleBass Kittes are so nice! Premium Member

    It would stop ALL. ALL the reptile shows would stop. All the Pet shops would stop selling reptiles. You couldn't buy anymore unless they were on the list. This goes for all reptiles.From the little anole to the largest monitor. If this gets passed, there will be another blow to an already failing economy. Big government should have no hand in this.

    This also does not just affect reptiles.Any nonnative species in the pet trade encompass virtually every bird, reptile, amphibian, fish and a number of mammals.

    Also if you can not sell or interstate transport, then why breed?

    Hopefully the others out there that read this will find it helpful and do something and fight for against it...
  7. kriminaal

    kriminaal HH Block Leader Staff Member Premium Member

    Now I'm a not a US citizen so I can't act on this. But I encourage all you Americans to do so. You must take make a statement to let your government know that this is not their decision to make. They are not knowledgeable enough to do so.
    Stop debating what is and what isn't. Make a move and stop this.
    Makes no sense that you're allowed to have guns, but not reptiles?
  8. Merlin

    Merlin Administrator Staff Member Premium Member

    Ok here I go!

    As has been shown, time and again, PROHIBITION STOPS NOTHING! All it does is create a new criminal black market and creates criminals out of what are otherwise law abiding citizens.

    And I REALLY get tired of people who equate having a lot of money with providing an animal proper care!
    Its not about money! Its about respecting the animal. All having a lot of money means is that you can make more expensive, frivolous, purchases!

    And then care even less when you toss them by the wayside and go on to the next frivolous purchase!!

    Face it, the animals are there and for a price anyone with the money would still be able to get one. Look at the people who go out and buy exotic cats, primates, etc! Those aren't cheap! But there are rescues who have their hands full because even though the people had the money to purchase them it, and presumably had the money to take care of them, they didn't, or wouldn't!
    Most of the government grandstanding has nothing to do with anything except bowing to the wishes of special interest groups who have a lot of money to BUY votes. And use junk science to support their agendas.
    Government is doing its best to intrude into every facet of our lives. They want to control everything and it just gets bigger and bigger.
    I agree that irresponsible keepers are a problem. But don't strip the privileges of the rest of us to keep our animals. The irresponsible keepers will not go away just because of passing a law. Look at the illegal trade in protected species. Look at the trade in drugs and prostitution. Having something be against the law does NOT make it go away.
    All this bill will do is make it illegal for people to keep an animal. The legitimate breeders and shows and shops will stop and all that money will be taken out of the economy and put into the hands of the smuggler or the black marketeer!

    And those who chose to disobey the law will NOT be able to aquire veterinary treatment when needed. So the animals will suffer.

    By the time it's over with don't be surprised when they decide that they will strip us of the right to maintain ANY sort of pet!

    Take a minute and send a polite and respectful letter!

    I'm done!
  9. disturbedr6

    disturbedr6 New Member

    A lot of you DO NOT UNDERSTAND how serious this is...

    Its not just exotics.. its basically all cages birds, reptiles, tropical fish, small animals including hamsters, guinea pigs, ferrets etc...

    They put it on a list that everything is banned until the review it, they have 37 months to review it, and theres no saying they will say they are allowed. if they find it unsafe for one place, then its illegal everywhere...

    My dad talked to the head guy at US ARK and he was in washington talking to lobbyist and they DO ahve the power, money and votes to pass this..

    When asked what we should do with out animals they said "we could careless, kill them, eat them whatever, its for the greater good, small amount of animals for years of there freedom"

    the bill we written but animal rights groups who don't want you to have ANY pets at all... and they will eventually even go after dogs...

    this is serious stuff
  10. disturbedr6

    disturbedr6 New Member

    The site that goes live tomorrow is NO HR 669 and is a colaborative effort of Pijac, Adam Wysocki, Pete Kahl, Brian Barcyzk and max pet supply.

    There will be avatars and signature banners to put on your profile for all the forums you visit. They will be going to fish, bird, rodent forms, etc. NO HR 669 will not be focusing just on the ban of reptiles, but all animals in jeopardy.
  11. nicole

    nicole Elite Member

    I do not think that it is not that we do not understand how serious it is, as I really get how serious this is!

    However, I have been looking for something, anything, a little more restrictive on the common species of reptiles that suffer at the hands of cruel and ignorant people. What it would solve that I would see a direct result to, is the common green iguana, would not be allowed to be sold at every flipping pet store up here for 10 bucks. Sold to the majority of people who have no business having them. Also to the people who do not care whether or not they are getting the proper care, they are just getting them so little 8 year old "Billy" will stop whining. Then when 8 year old "Billy" gets tired of it or bit, or kills it, it doesn't matter, they will just get a new one, they are after all only 10 bucks.

    That's what I want to see stop.

    Do I agree that the responsible should suffer for the morons out there? No! However the responsible will always suffer for the ones who are cruel and too lazy to actually be a parent.

    Laws are made because of the stupidity of people.

    But, again in thinking about that statement, if this actually passes, they will just move onto something else. So little "Billy" can whine and complain, and instead of that iguana, or baby tortoise, or baby snake that will get 15 feet long, he will now get a new baby kitten or puppy that will be kicked to the curb when the novelty wears off.

    Or maybe he won't get any of those, he will get the guinea pig, or hamster ( they will let those get by, that is pretty obvious) and never clean the cage or forget to feed it, then Mom won't understand when she goes in his room a month later to find it starved to death, literally.
    But, she will figure he learned his lesson and buy him a new one.

    So as you see the more I think about it, it doesn't matter what they ban, these people will just move on to something else.

    So, if they pass this, cat and dog rescues better be ready for the huge amount of numbers that will be coming in. I guess that would include my cat rescue.

    Can't we just ban stupid people?

    Merlin, you have some very valid points about the people with money.

    Look at the African grey birds and the Macaws. Those by no means are cheap to buy. However I know a lady who does rescue, just specifically for those birds, and she has an absolute TON of those noisy critters. Most from people who spent a lot of money on them and realized that they could not handle a huge bird, with a giant can opener for a beak. Also people who could not stand the constant LOUD obnoxious squawking of those birds. Not to mention the fact that it is like having a two year old who defies you on purpose, in the house. Those rescues are always full.

    Either way, if this passes it won't solve anything in the long run. They will just move onto something else.

    If it does not pass it also will not solve anything. There will still be the millions of reptiles who meet a cruel and untimely death at the hands of people who just do not care.

    I would love to see some stricter laws. I would also love to see Americans start breeding most of our own and not rely so heavily on importing them in.

    However with the iguanas, I am not budging on my opinion on them. It just needs to stop!

    Serious restrictions, serious permits, and a whole lot of law and animal enforcement officers to make sure these laws are being abided by. But, that will never happen so that is just a dream.

    This could go on forever.

    No one will win with this either way, and no one will be happy with this either way.
  12. titus

    titus Elite Member Premium Member

    I agree better regulations are needed, but this is not the way to do things. I would support permits for hots and larger animals. The main problem I see in the US is no one knows who has these animals. After these animals are imported no one really knows where they go, simply having a paper trail registration at every transaction (import to death/Birth to death for breeders) by a government office would tell who owns the animal or who is not following with the law.

    It works well here, Though not strictly enforced, If you don't have the required paperwork your animal will be taken. If you don't register your animal, you can be fined. Even if you don't register your animal the gov. office has your information anyway from the seller, who has to register the sale to remove the animal from their listing for if and when they are inspected.
  13. MoogleBass

    MoogleBass Kittes are so nice! Premium Member

    In order to fight this we all need to put aside our petty differences, stop fighting and feuding over who is a better breeder, who has the biggest website, WHAT ANIMALS THERE NEEDS TO BE LAWS ON. I do not mean just here, I mean all the people in the reptile community, all the people in the bird community, all the people in the exotic mammals community. We need to bind together and fight the bill with all we have. Expend everything to stop it, if we don't do that then we have brought it upon ourselves. This is an urgent matter and instead of doing we are bickering over what animals there needs to be more regulations on. That can come later, it is not important now. The time now is to fight.

    For tonight we dine in, lol got a bit carried away.

    Here is this too

    They are telling us that email and fax are the least effective way to contact members... they get lost and deleted. We need to call and write. They are also saying to send the letters directly to our lobbyist and have him deliver them in mass to the subcommittee members. If you are focusing on other activities STOP until after you complete this important task. Start calling and writing. The Key is IN MASS!!! It has greater impact that way. The time is now to fight for your life.
  14. Wildflowernw

    Wildflowernw Elite Member

    Another problem is they have this thing nationwide instead of state to state. For instance any of the problems found in say Florida just isn't a problem here. Someones exotic gets loose and its odd of surviving are super low if at all.
  15. Merlin

    Merlin Administrator Staff Member Premium Member

    This is true! There are far too many programs for mass emailing(SPAM) things for Emails to be taken that seriously. Write a letter or call your representatives!

    And BE POLITE! Ranting and raving will do nothing but get you hung up on or get your letter tossed in the trash!
  16. Scott Smith

    Scott Smith Elite Member

    Must Read HR669 Stop It

    BHB has a video out on what we can do to stop this. Go to: NO HR 669

    It will give you a step by step on what to do.

    Scott Smith
  17. Scott Smith

    Scott Smith Elite Member

    Just to clarify. This is not a ban on some. It will stop the importing, breeding and transporting of your animals, this includes captive bred. {so if you move it would be illegal to take your animals with}

  18. Dragoness

    Dragoness Elite Member

    I'm editing a sample letter. Will probably mail it tomorrow.
  19. David McConley

    David McConley Elite Member

    I'll be stuffing envelopes tonight and sending them out tomorrow. I have already sent an e-mail to the committee chairperson, but after reading that they often get deleted, I decided to send hard copies. I desperately want to do my part to squash this bit of unpleasantness and get prepared for the next legal battle that comes down the pike(which I am sure won't be far away).
  20. nicole

    nicole Elite Member

    Hahaha, Representatives are not answering their phones now! That is pretty funny!

    I have a feeling that this will not pass, not even a little bit.
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