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Discussion in 'Bearded Dragons' started by Sjshephard, Apr 30, 2013.

  1. Merlin

    Merlin Administrator Staff Member Premium Member

    Ok so we are back to this!
    Vers and I have had this conversation before and are apparently never going to agree.

    Collards, mustard, and turnip greens, are all fine for staples! This is a tried and true diet mix that has been successfully used by keepers, breeders, zoos, and vets for decades for feeding herbivorous lizards. I have personally fed them daily to my 12 year old green iguana as well as my beardies.
    The reason it is used is because it works.

    And don't cook the squash, just grate it.
     
  2. herpgirl250

    herpgirl250 Elite Member

    This is some info that was passed to me on the subject of collared greens first obviously variety is key. All veggies contain goitrogens however most are not high in goitrogens and collared greens are not. Goitrogens do not cause hyperthyroidism. If your dragon has an existing thyroid problem then you should stay away from goitrogen foods. This would be in the case of unnhealthy dragons. Collared greens have a fairly moderate oxalates and a Fairly high calcium ratio. That is more worrisome than goitrogen that is why variety is best.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2013
  3. Vers

    Vers Elite Member

    While you can steam/boil it, you can also feed it raw. Get out your grater (as mentioned above), microplane or food processor and shred it up. You can store the rest in ziplock bags in the freezer.
     
  4. Vers

    Vers Elite Member

    Haha It's very much something we will have to agree to disagree on, my friend :) I've seen way too many overweight animals on those staples for me to push them.
     
  5. Vers

    Vers Elite Member

    Goitrogens DO cause hyperthyroidism and collards are goitrogenic. In fact this may be the very reason your Rosie is on the heavy side. For more, read up here.
     
  6. herpgirl250

    herpgirl250 Elite Member

    I opened that link in the other reply and it said to cook it. I have always offered it raw and it has always been refused I figured maybe this would make it more appealing to Rosie.
     
  7. herpgirl250

    herpgirl250 Elite Member

    I don't think Rosie is so big. The pics on me he is puffed up he is alot . He does have a big head.
    image-53.jpg
     

    Attached Files:

  8. herpgirl250

    herpgirl250 Elite Member

    Do they have links that are talking about reptiles when it comes to this.
     
  9. Vers

    Vers Elite Member

    He doesn't look large in that photo...I thought you mentioned it yourself earlier?

    And yes, Melissa Kaplan touches on it here.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2013
  10. herpgirl250

    herpgirl250 Elite Member

    Thanks for the link I see the foods that have the high levels but collared greens are not mentioned. I was told all veggies contain goitrogen but colleed greens do not carry a high enough amount to be concerned.
     
  11. Vers

    Vers Elite Member

    Just because they arent mentioned doesn't mean they are not goitrogenic, which they are. See the link I posted earlier for a complete list.
     
  12. TigerIvy

    TigerIvy Elite Member

    I have to agree with Merlin on this...with a little variation. Collard mustard and turnip are fine greens to use and feed. It is totally about variety!!! And squash is the same, I just use a cheese grater and grate it up. But realize not all veggies contain goitrogens or oxalates. Some do and some don't. I enjoy gardening and growing plants so for me its no problem to keep things that my dragons will eat - but that I also use such as wheat grass, lemon grass, various herbs, dandelions and yes I do grow straight alfalfa for my dragons.

    The bottom line in the entire argument is variety is key. You shouldnt only feed the trinity greens, but vary what you do use. Yes I do feed my dragons fruits, including ones that are indeed high in vitamin C (vitamin C is a water soluble vitamin so there is low risk of any harm) simply because they enjoy them. Cherries and papaya on the other hand have seriously good nutritional value. Papaya is high in many vitamins and minerals including Potassium. Cherries are the same way - extremely healthy. Because although they are pets - they are intelligent creates who do deserve a good quality of life and in my opinion that quality of life includes diet variety.

    Here is what gets me, people want to argue and validate different salads, but the other important thing is to realize whatever your feeders eat - your dragons eat. I mean go look at the ingredients of some of the Fluker products.. it might surprise and/or scare you!! This includes the water crystals, dried cricket diet and bearded dragon food!

    For me the bottom line reality is I enjoy to eat. I enjoy to eat a variety of things and many of those things my pets can also eat. I also enjoy being in control of what I eat and saving money. So for me growing a few small things in my home is a no brainer. I am not going to pay gourmet prices for things I can grow in my own home chemical free! Ok so what I grow weeds in my house (dandelions) I enjoy them in salad, wheat grass is a great addition to many dishes, same with lemon grass! Growing basil, parsley, cilantro, rosemary, rosehips, and other herbs also makes my house smell yummy.

    Ok I will step off my soap box lol
     
  13. herpgirl250

    herpgirl250 Elite Member

    Is there a way to supplement for variety when it comes to greens. My four year old beardie Rosie refuses any greens but collards. If I put any other in his cage he pitches a fit and spreads them all over his cage. I have withheld food for a week to get him to eat something different he will just sit and bask and stare at me. After a few days he will go to the cool side and sulk. Today I put mustard greens and dandelion greens in and I came home to it spread all over his enclosure. When it comes to collards he only eats a few pieces everyday I have no idea how he maintains a good if not a bit heavy weight all the time. When I rescued him he had been raised on romaine and a few other types of lettuce I don't know if this is part of the problem. Forget about squash he has never even eaten any. As far as live feeders he will take sometimes two days to eat ten especially on the days they are dusted. Do they have a veggie supplement what do people do he can't be the first dragon like this. My other one ate a variety fine I have been working with him for two years no change at all.
     
  14. TigerIvy

    TigerIvy Elite Member

    Some dragons prefer bitter greens some prefer sweeter greens. Or it may be texture that is key. Try various things that you eat that aren't harmful and see what Rosie will eat. I am willing to bet Collard was the first green you gave Rosie after you rescued him. They get things in their head and boom - they stick with it! Something you could try? Try clover or alfalfa (not sprouts ok..the leaves of the plant itself).

    Alternatively, feed your feeders what you want your dragon to eat. LOL you are what you eat!
     
  15. Vers

    Vers Elite Member

    OK, let me clarify here since there seems to be a bit of confusion as to my stance on this topic. I do not believe collard, turnip and mustard greens should not be given at all, I just do not think they should be provided daily or in high quantity over long periods of time. There are plenty of other options out there they do not contain potentially harmful chemical compounds, namely curly endive and escarole. Now, like many other dark leafy greens, both species of chicory do contain moderate amounts of oxalates, however those oxalate levels are similar to that of collards and mustards and the former pair are not goitrogenic, unlike those in the Brassica genus. I'm not going to force people in to my line of thinking, I just think it's something worthy of some thought. YMMV.
     
  16. herpgirl250

    herpgirl250 Elite Member

    Collared greens were the first thing i gave him. That's true my dubias get fresh veggies everyday same stuff I feed my dragons so that is good. I have never tried papaya or cherries I love those so he can try these. I would be happy to buy anything that he might like for variety.
     
  17. TigerIvy

    TigerIvy Elite Member

    Merlin and I have both said variety is key - neither of us have said these are the only greens that should be used. But these greens are ok to use as part of the variety
     
  18. Vers

    Vers Elite Member

    And as I thought I made clear there is no argument with that from me--I don't believe I ever accused you or Merlin of making such a statement, either. I was merely pointing it out to those who feed ONLY those greens as staples, and there are many who do, some of them being participants in this thread. That is why I brought it up in the first place :)
     
  19. Sjshephard

    Sjshephard Active Member

    With the proper ighting set up I am already seeing marked improvement in Yoshi's step. This morning he actually chased crickets around his enclosure! I received small dubia's today and I think I heard him smacking his lips...he loves them! Lastly, I made a huge salad to freeze into portions...collards (using what I have left), romaine, carrots, sweet potatoes, and squash. I also purchased a papaya to offer him. Having never purchased one, much less seen them, I came to find out it is not ripe. He will have to wait a few days for this delicious treat.
     
  20. herpgirl250

    herpgirl250 Elite Member

    I have always known Rosie's diet is not correct my other beardies do not eat like that. I would challenge you to get him to eat any other greens.;) aside from starving him I don't know what to do we have gone over a week without eating and he just retreats to the corner and behaves like he is going to brumate. I am hoping this season will be different after he calms down a bit.
     

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