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So Happy I Found This Forum!

Discussion in 'Bearded Dragons' started by Sjshephard, Apr 30, 2013.

  1. TigerIvy

    TigerIvy Elite Member

    Yup Vers covered all this in my Novel of bearded dragons lmao. But Just so you know? Some of the foods you listed are high in oxalates which are bad also (oxalates bind calcium). It's really super hard to balance a diet I know. You forgot herbs like parsley, Rosemary, Basil, cilantro! Those in moderation are awesome and the best staple fruit I have found is by far papaya. Good staple veggies are Spaghetti Squash, alfalfa, and wheat grass (its basically organic wheat seed at 2 inches tall) and I do agree with the cactus, dandelion (the yellow flower is also edible), grasses - only adding grape leaves to that). Other things they can eat flowering are lemon grass, Maple leaves, Dahlia pedals, and mint leaves.

    - side note...Because of the cellulose in any green..they will absorb and hold more pesticide then other veggies with a harder outer shell (like squash). If possibly grow your own or spend the extra and get organic. I learned this the hard way with a rescue.

    I always use caution with Turnip greens and multivitamins because of the possibility of Vit A poisoning. With veggies, they can excrete the excess but with suppliments its harder for them to excrete.

    You can achieve a good balance by feeding a variety of things to any bearded dragon. In a way though Vers I think its rather funny that people like me go to such lengths because in the wild I am sure they don't care if something is good or bad. They eat what they like and don't eat what they don't like. I grow a lot of what they eat (humorously using roach poo for fertilizer...recycling at its finest!)

    Some great ideas? If you buy carrots or celery..get them with the leaves on top! The dragons will gladly eat the greens. Just remember to wash them really well. Get strawberries? Give them the leaves! Same thing *and a tiny bit of strawberry won't kill em either).

    The things that are absolutely OFF LIMITS to a bearded dragon are:
    1. fireflies of ANY type
    2. Avocados
    3. Lettuce (has no nutritional value, will only give your dragon the runs!)
    4. Rhubarb
    5. Wild caught insects


    And note no one has mentioned Spinach? Well Spinach is nutritious..it is extremely high in Vit A, contains high amounts of both goitrogens and oxalates.
     
  2. Vers

    Vers Elite Member

    It's not that I forgot, I was just covering giotrogens because the OP stated she was feeding collards, which many consider the holy grail of greens based solely on their high calcium concentration. There are countless food items that should not be fed or fed sparingly, I just didn't have the time between revamping my closet and making dinner to list the more common items. The positive food items I listed are hands down the best balanced food items for herbivores and many omnivores, IMO.
     
  3. Vers

    Vers Elite Member

    Sorry, that should read goitrogens*
     
  4. herpgirl250

    herpgirl250 Elite Member

    I should have worded it better i meant as far as having obvious physical signs of mbd. I know my guys probably won't live as long but who knows. I just had a rescue pass at 9 never had UVB and fed 100 percent diet for supers. This is Rosie. He has no outward signs of the neglect he had for two years hopefully the good care he received now will help. I am taking in another female Saturday she looks totally normal she is just over a year and only 15".
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    Last edited: May 1, 2013
  5. TigerIvy

    TigerIvy Elite Member

    Ah I see, lol I tend to write novels sometimes. I only deal with bearded dragons and their unique needs as a species.
     
  6. TigerIvy

    TigerIvy Elite Member

    That isn't a bad age really. I feel so bad for the ones who come so miscared for. Newb will always be my little miracle I guess. I have never in my life seen a bearded dragon so small.
     
  7. herpgirl250

    herpgirl250 Elite Member

    Funny about the collared greens this is a very trusted nutritional guide it says collared greens make a great staple. Someone should inform this about what you guys are saying most people I talk to use this as a guide to feeding their beardies.
    Nutrition Content
     
  8. TigerIvy

    TigerIvy Elite Member

  9. Vers

    Vers Elite Member

    Haha...usually I'm pretty thorough--just not that time.
     
  10. Vers

    Vers Elite Member

    Again, despite what that link states, collards are goitrogenic (google 'goitrogenic foods') and should not make up a majority of an animal's diet. They aren't bad, they just are not the best, especially when fed frequently and in high quantity.
     
  11. Sjshephard

    Sjshephard Active Member

    Thank you very much for the list of greens that are better than collards. Truth be told, I throw away more than he eats so its probably a good thing because I, as many others, was going to rely on them for a staple food. I will get different veggies tomorrow and a papaya! I had also read that strawberries (with the seeds cut off) and apricots are good staple fruits. Does anyone know if this is correct?

    The information provided in this thread alone has been absolutely invaluable to me, as a new reptile owner. I thank everyone for the helpful info!
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2013
  12. TigerIvy

    TigerIvy Elite Member

    strawberries and aprocots are ok in very small amounts occasionally honestly. Usually what I do is buy them for my kids, give the tops to the lizards when we eat them. May I make a suggestion? Think about bulk things that can be frozen (sweet peas, green beans) and things you can grow (dandelions are a weed and seeds are easily gotten!) or things like Spaghetti Squash (if you store it in a ziplock baggy with most of the air removed and a da.mp paper towel it will keep about a week!) Or [example] if you use a pepper with supper cut a little up finely and offer it! I'm sure you are getting the idea!

    Right now your guy is sooo little I would focus more on the insects and just offer small amounts of salad. Baby dragons grow so fast they require a good deal of protein and fat to grow. That is why the diet is 80% insect / 20 % salad. But an adult needs much less protein that is why the numbers flip to 20% insect / 80% salad
     
  13. MelissaB

    MelissaB Well-Known Member

    Oh my gosh, every single list I've looked at lists turnip, mustard, collard, and dandelion as great staples...now you're saying dandelion is the only one that's really good. I'm so confused!! I've seen endive and escarole on the lists too but haven't tried those yet. My Dragon used to love squash (butternut and yellow) but suddenly got picky and won't touch anything that isn't green. Not even fruits. I'm hoping that issue is a phase.
     
  14. TigerIvy

    TigerIvy Elite Member

    It's all about balance ok? Just like a drink of wine every now and again isn't harmful - being an alcoholic is. Things with oxalates and goitrogens aren't evil really, they just should be fed in moderation with foods that aren't as high in them. Like I said before, think of what you can grow, easily obtain and freeze. Or things you use day to day yourself!
     
  15. MelissaB

    MelissaB Well-Known Member

    Funny you should say that, I'm having a glass of wine now. Long, long day. In other news, I did get my silkworms and Drago loves them. She actually moved her lazy self (meant with affection, of course) to get to a few when I dropped them away from her. She hadn't moved to get a cricket in ages. She had 10 silkworms this afternoon, on top of the 15 crickets that were convenient when they walked into her mouth through the day. Yum! She also pooped on my comforter this afternoon while I had her out, very nice.

    As far as veggies go, we eat a whole lot of bell peppers at my house, all colors. But I've read that those are occasional for dragons. Seems like there are so many "occasional" things, but if I offer all of the different ones occasionally, that's still too many. I kind of had a system down with mustard/turnip/collard/dandelion, because we like to eat most of those too and we cook the extra for ourselves. And she does eat green beans. Now though, if endive and escarole are better than all but dandelion, well, I'm not a big eater of either of those. If Drago ever gets back to eating non green veggies we will be able to do a better variety I think.
     
  16. TigerIvy

    TigerIvy Elite Member

    Dandelion is fine hun, its all about balance. Just balancing everything out and it takes time and effort. I have no life other then my kids ( 2 legged, furry, scaly and shelled) and for me its a little easier because I am always here. But if you stop and think...a small planted aquarium isn't hard, it looks nice, its good for your air and feeds your pets!!!

    Like a 20 long, a few herbs, a few dandelions, a few of this and that..some dirt and creativity!!
     
  17. herpgirl250

    herpgirl250 Elite Member

    Boy i am glad i found this site i had no idea about collared greens. This is the first I have heard that collared greens are not a good staple. The info i am hearing could be totally correct on this site. IThat site I posted is written by extremely experienced beardie owners. I am curious to learn more I am going to start a thread on a different forum see what I can learn. I think balance is good but my Rosie will only eat collared greens and some dandelion over the two years I have had him I have struggled to get him to eat more variety he will not eat for a week if I with hold food to force him to eat other greens.

    Why would a site like they post they make a great staple and do not mention the risk they pose feeding to often. I am not arguing just curious seems the should have mentioned that.

    Meant to quote this. As far as my older dragon Rosie I am in trouble if this is the case he only eats colored greens and mustard green I have withheld food and he refuses to eat I will mix it all together and he will fish out what he likes. I have never even found a squash he likes. His first two years his other owners fed him only romaine. He is a big boy but but he does not eat alot. When I read on another 50 plus live feeders a week I could not believe it. Even if I offered him that much he would not eat it.

    That website says to feed collared greens daily.
     
  18. herpgirl250

    herpgirl250 Elite Member

    Sorry for all the separate posts but I never knew you were supposed to cook the squash no wonder maybe Rosie will like it more now.
     
  19. MelissaB

    MelissaB Well-Known Member

    When mine used to love squash, she ate yellow squash and butternut. The yellow is sort of soft anyway, so I just peeled it and cut the seeds/core out of the middle with a paring knife and then ran the end of the squash over my grater. It turned the squash into a stringy little piles of mush, and Drago loved it like that. With butternut squash, it's really hard so I peeled it and would use the peeler to get paper thin strips of the squash off. Then I'd cut those strips into short slivers (she was smaller at the time) and she ate it like that easily. I just couldn't offer it in chunks because it's so hard. But I have seen lots of people saying they cook it first. Also lots of people who don't, so I just did what I did and Drago liked it and it was easy to eat.
     
  20. Vers

    Vers Elite Member

    I see little point in offering any fruits, to be honest. Most are packed with Vitamin C and or high amounts of sugar, neither of which are great for these lizards and many other herbivores. As for Strawberries, unless they are organic I wouldn't even eat them myself...not with the pesticides that farmers are starting to use on them.

    I agree, it is a bout balance, but those feeding the 'holy trinity' of greens (collards, mustards, turnips) are feeding much of the same thing with slight variations between each. After an extended period of time chemical compounds like goitrogens will start taking a toll. Over the years I've seen so many overweight animals, from bearded dragons to uromastyx to chuckwalla, all being fed these staple greens frequently and in high quantity. I can't guarantee these items directly resulted in these specimen's obesity, but they are most definitely suspect. This is exactly why I've decided to stick with the food items I listed earlier, because they are not goitrogenic, have a solid calcium to phosphorous ratio, moderate to low oxalate levels, as well as low sugar and vitamin C. Many of them are also very good sources of fiber, which is important for all herbivorous animals.

    While variety is a good thing, many people tend to over do this by adding unnecessary food items because they appear to us--many reptile salads look a lot like what I'd see on a restaurant menu...blueberries, strawberries, huge piles of shredded carrot or chunked apple with a raspberry vinaigrette. In the end, these animals require certain dietary needs and those needs should not be overlooked.
     

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