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Sceloporus Pages

Discussion in 'Lizards - General' started by DwarvenChef, Jan 26, 2012.

  1. DwarvenChef

    DwarvenChef Elite Member

    I'm a little nuts about these lizards and find myself looking for any random information I can find to learn more. Due to the lack of "bling" these lizards bring to the table for most people they are usually not featured in any mainline herp news. But indiviual scientific write ups do surface now and again if you look hard enough.

    If it's ok with the population here I would like to post links to sites I find in my searches.

    Just found this one and it has some interesting info that makes me rethink my big log theory for my tank DOH!!

    The Biogeography of Sceloporus occidentalis

    I'll post them here as I find them.

    wildherps.com - Eastern Fence Lizard (Sceloporus undulatus)
     
  2. AjaMichelle

    AjaMichelle Elite Member

    Sceloporous are great and I'm lucky enough to live in a state with all varieties! I think people would rethink the lack of bling issue if they paid more attention to the males! :) among others, Sceloporous jarrovi.
     
  3. DwarvenChef

    DwarvenChef Elite Member

  4. YellowOctopus

    YellowOctopus Elite Member

    The phylogeny given in the first article you linked to isn't a very good one- Craniata isn't a phylum, it's a clade and doesn't really have a place in a phylogeny. The proper phylogeny should go Eukaryota, Animalia, Chordata, Vertebrata, Reptilia, Squamata, Sceloporus. There are various sub- and super- groups thrown in there, but I suspect that your article isn't using a widely-accepted phylogeny.
     
  5. AjaMichelle

    AjaMichelle Elite Member

    Actually...
    Phylogeny refers to the evolutionary relationships among organisms, taxonomy refers to the classification scheme used to categorize organisms. Clades do in fact have a place in phylogeny. The issue you're having is with the taxonomy. The article cited uses Craniata in place of Vertebrata. This is actually both taxonomically and phylogenetically correct. Hagfishes and Lampreys (Myxinoidea and Petromyzontoidea, respectively) are also considered vertebrates. However, vertebrae are NOT the synapomorphy (shared derived character) used to group "vertebrates." In fact, having a cranium (a skull) is what differentiates said organisms from invertebrates. Hagfishes and lampreys actually lack true vertebral columns: hagfish have no trace of vertebrae, lampreys have rudimentary vertebrae, but both possess a cranium. So technically, the taxonomy used by the source is more correct both phylogenetically and taxonomically than if they were to utilize only the phylum Vertebrata. :) This is actually a widely accepted grouping.
     
  6. DwarvenChef

    DwarvenChef Elite Member

    The above 2 posts are why I didn't continue in marine biology or herpetology that stuff hurts my brain :p Being Dyslexic and having sequincing issues along with it, I just couldn't keep it all straight. My reasons for posting the first link was more inline with the field notes and the interesting bit about how S. Occidentalis was able to cure lyme in the ticks them selves.
     
  7. AjaMichelle

    AjaMichelle Elite Member

    I didn't want credit taken away from the source over what is essentially semantics :)
     
  8. YellowOctopus

    YellowOctopus Elite Member

    Well fine then. What I meant was that Craniata gives me gas and they should have just stuck with the regular names. As for clades...I tend to exaggerate when I think something is stupid and grasping at straws. I'm not a fan of clades.

    The last I heard, a cranium was only a portion of what makes Vertebrata. I could be wrong, I guess, Phylogenetics is a course for next semester. This would be so much simpler if we could just use molecular data and be done with it. Ugh.
     
  9. AjaMichelle

    AjaMichelle Elite Member

    There are more features that distinguish vertebrates from other organisms but these other features aren't really definitive. For example, the adoption of a more actively predaceous life style most likely perpetuated the shift from non-vertebrate chordate to "vertebrate." But the defining feature is definitely the cranium.

    Life would definitely be simpler if we could just use molecular data, but this is impossible, and takes all of the fun out of phylogenetics. :)
     
  10. AjaMichelle

    AjaMichelle Elite Member

    Hey DwarvenChef, have you checked out guides or notes for observations on S. malachiticus in the field?
     
  11. DwarvenChef

    DwarvenChef Elite Member

    I've seen the links to buy the reports, 3 that I know of. I just haven't bought them yet, I don't know what format the info is in, booklet, pages, or a download.

    If you know of other sources I'd LOVE to get my hands on them.
     
  12. AjaMichelle

    AjaMichelle Elite Member

    I can check for you :)
     
  13. DwarvenChef

    DwarvenChef Elite Member

    This spring (or when the days warm a bit more) I'm going to be at my folks ranch once a week. I'll be taking pics and watching the S. Occedentalis doing the Push Up :) now if I can get my daughter to lend me her camera I'll be getting some cool pics :) I figure if I watch a few seasons in the same area I can better understand these guys. Till now I have just been able to observe in random sites all over CA. Now I really want to understand a population area. I may have to plot some bicycle trips to other habbitat ranges to see how my location vs these others are doing... Ok I'm sounding nerdy all over again :p
     
  14. DwarvenChef

    DwarvenChef Elite Member

    [video=youtube;h3c5bZ4vZPs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3c5bZ4vZPs[/video]
    Some breeding challenge rights. Not my video but soon to have my own video of this when I'm out in the field.
     
  15. DwarvenChef

    DwarvenChef Elite Member

    RMSceloporusCovercleaned.jpg

    Whoot I found it, I thought I lost this issue to the sands of time and moving. But going through a box of mags I found it hiding, now I can add it to the proper box and enjoy the pics.

    Issue info
    Volume 14, Number 9, September 2006
     

    Attached Files:

  16. mld

    mld Subscribed User Premium Member

    When I seen the Snake on a Plane with Samuel L. Jackson, I figured it was an older addition! I love keeping old magazines
     
  17. DwarvenChef

    DwarvenChef Elite Member

    I'm a packrat by nature and every few years I have to weed out stuff. I can only do this when I'm in a very focused frame of mind so I can toss/donate/recycle my hordings. Drives my minimalist wife nuts but she tends to let me be me as long as it's not creaping around the house. Giving up the first 10 years of Reptile mag was tough but at the time I was away from herps and a nature society could use them more than I needed them. I kept a few issues that where colse to me, this being one of them.
     
  18. Merlin

    Merlin Administrator Staff Member Premium Member

    LOL! You aren't alone! I still have all my back issues of Reptiles.
     
  19. DwarvenChef

    DwarvenChef Elite Member

    http://www.faculty.biol.vt.edu/andrews/pdfs/andrews98.pdf

    From just skimming this article I find it interesting to know what body temps are for the various cousins of the Sceloporus line.

    My wife is going to kill me I think as I'm finding it very hard to resist getting other colonies of these lizards for breeding... After all, I need an egg layer of the family so I can bone up on my incubation skills :)

    I also saw an article on Sceloporus Malachiticus brood sizes and food/fat availability up to 6 months before birth, I may need to up my feeding and add some grubs to the mix just to get some mass on the girls. Only 1 clutch a year the article says so I want to be ready if a male ever becomes available.
     
  20. DwarvenChef

    DwarvenChef Elite Member

    JSTOR: An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie

    Found the book that has this articule :) now to await it's arrival... Sure it's 1971 but hey it's the same stuff I was reading back than and I doubt it has changed much over the past few years :p Although I do find it funny when reading up on older books that didn't really have all the info they needed to classify some herps :p Like males and females listed as two different species... now thats funny :p
     

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