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Discussion in 'Substrates/Bedding/Flooring' started by Herpewanabe, Mar 30, 2006.

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  1. Herpewanabe

    Herpewanabe Elite Member

    So one thing I have learned since I have started my new found interest is sand is bad. I talked to some of the reptile people at the store I work and they all say that sand is bad and even though the store manager wants sand with some of the animals we try and use calisand in order to help with the problem. So my question is does calcium sand work? Is it as good as they say or is it just a con and can harm the animals?
  2. Lyn

    Lyn Elite Member

    To be perfectly honest with you, pet stores make it their business to make a sale. From what I hear, calcisand is very abrasive and larger than play sand. Playsand is also cleaned for use in sandboxes....I use newspaper for all my reptiles only because even playsand can cause impactions. IF there is a chance, then it isnt worth using. Good luck. Lyn
  3. rbl

    rbl MacGyver in real life

    The anti-sand folks usually say calcisand is 10 times worse than regular sand so you might not be "helping with the problem" but making it worse.

    A recent member say he's using a sand by Namiba Terra that becomes hard when misted. Logic tells me that if I eat a spoon of it, it will become a rock in my stomach but since I read some good and bad things about this but not as bad as calcisand, I would say that it's worth your time.
  4. titus

    titus Elite Member Premium Member

    Seeing this post I can see your worries in the use of any sand. In a dry state the Namiba Terra sand would be just as bad as any other. I think that a amount of clay is added to the sand to make it forum a hard surface after drying. With little to no loose particals the chance of impaction is little to non. It's not yet being sold in the outside of eroupe. If your intrested you could try I think they ship woldwide, they have an english site, though the majority of the information is in German.
  5. rbl

    rbl MacGyver in real life

    Hey Titus, can you provide a link to the product page in reptilica or in the namiba terra site? I searched for Savanna and I didn't found any sand substrate with that name.

    Thanks =)
  6. titus

    titus Elite Member Premium Member

    theres no product information in english so I've included a translation of the german text they have change the packaging since the photo was taken for the site the new package says "Savanna Red" or "Savanna Orange" as the color the "Original Red sand" sold not be used as it is a loose sand.

    Translation of German Text
    Namiba Terra of red Terrariensand is a desert sand, which is suitable particularly due to its condition for wild and savanna-inhabiting reptiles, scorpions and small rodents. The remarkable red decorative colouring of this sand offers above all large kinds of reptile e.g. Kragenechsen, Bartagamen and Waranen, in addition, small Bodengeckos promotes a natural environment, thus a kind-typical behavior Terrarium and offers good conditions for digging. This red Terrariensand is filled up damp into the PolyBag and should be able to dry first, before the respective reptiles are Placed there. To dig with the dry this sand hard and makes possible excavate-building reptiles, with appropriate sand height (at least 10cm) courses and caves into sand.
  7. venus

    venus Founding Member

    I am against calcisand,,,when it gets wet it clumps together and this is what happens lizards eat it and they become impacted. Regular play sand does not do this. Like Lyn said,,,stores are only in it for the all mighty dollar.
  8. mshrmheadcharge

    mshrmheadcharge Moderator Staff Member Premium Member

    I too am against calci sand, or any type of sand substrate.
  9. Herpewanabe

    Herpewanabe Elite Member

    I see after reading this what do you guys think of eco-earth? thanks guys!
  10. Moshpitrockchick

    Moshpitrockchick Subscribed User Premium Member

    It depends what herps you want to use the eco-earth for. It's not generally used in desert set ups, and even then i've heard nasty things about it causing eye infections.
    For a more 'natural' look you can use slate tiles, they work great and keep lizard nails nice and short.
  11. zaroba

    zaroba Elite Member

    if sand is so bad, why isen't thier massive extinctions and lack of any reptile wildlife in the desert and other sandy areas? :p
  12. rbl

    rbl MacGyver in real life

    Because there is no calcisand in the wild, because animals don't spend a 100% of their time in sand like they do in their enclosures and finally because they do eat some sand, rocks and dirt and that among other reasons is why they live much less time in the wild than they live in captivity.

    You can have sand in your enclosures and they might be fine for years like many are but statistically you are decreasing their life expectation.
  13. Rich

    Rich Administrator Staff Member Premium Member

    What studies show there aren't massive losses annually due to ingestion? You need to remember that the wild population of these animals is far greater than our captive collections. Every year thousands and thousands die each year. These animals did not have a necropsy done to determine each Leos cause of death. For all we know, every wild Leo that dies could be dying from a result of sand ingestion. Then again, maybe none of them did. (I would need proof. lol)

    In captivity we have the ability to monitor how we house our animals. The goal is to create naturalistically safe enclosures for the inhabitants. Since our goal is to increase the life expectancy of our herps, many of us will avoid items that we just don't need to subject our herps too. Its proven that sand can cause impaction in a short span of time (Acute), and over an extended period of time. (Chronic)

    Why would we intentionally place our herp on a substrate that has the potential to decrease/end the life of our herp? It doesn't make sense to do that when there are so many other options our there.

    My reptiles are my pets. I wouldn't intentionally do something that could endanger them.
  14. zaroba

    zaroba Elite Member

    thanks. was just curious.
  15. Herpewanabe

    Herpewanabe Elite Member

    Tiles this is awesome we keep 2 of our snakes on tiles. So what are pros and cons of tiles? How easy it is to clean tiles? Can i still have large rocks n such?
  16. mshrmheadcharge

    mshrmheadcharge Moderator Staff Member Premium Member

    youcould use only large rocks and repticarpet maybe
  17. Herpewanabe

    Herpewanabe Elite Member

    I might consider the reptile carpet, I checked out the colors actualy the other day and it looks great. The only reason Im asking about tile is because of the clean up ammount.
  18. mshrmheadcharge

    mshrmheadcharge Moderator Staff Member Premium Member

    well let us know what you decided, and post pics too!!
  19. kremlinator

    kremlinator Banned User

    I use a mixture of about 60-70% soil with 40-30% sand, since mine like to burrow, it provides a bit more structure integrity when I add water.

    I sincerely doubt that lizards inhabiting the sandy deserts, or even snakes (ie. the sidewinder that spends it's ENTIRE life in the sand, or the kenyan SAND boa that I think does the same) have issues with passing sand. The reason you find them successful there is that they likely have mechanisms or digestive systems condusive with eliminating waste sand, whereas animals from places such as forests or grasslands wouldn't be as adept at "offensive particle elimination".

    Responsibly, shouldn't we be trying to provide a "natural" environment anyways? Therefore this shouldn't be an issue, should it? Just exercise common sense with the substrate, just like you do with humidity and temperature. For example, you wouldn't put a tropical lizard that lives at 32 degrees celcius down to 18 degrees celcius as an average, would you? By the same page, why would you put something that live in detritus in sand? I rest my case.
  20. Herpewanabe

    Herpewanabe Elite Member

    What about soil how does it work compared to sand? Soil is just dirt I think thats an awesome substrate?!
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