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Red Poop? Dx

Discussion in 'Bearded Dragons' started by Mellu, Feb 5, 2011.

  1. Mellu

    Mellu Active Member

    Since I got Mika, about a month ago, she's been a picture of health(aside from a sore arm from being a little too rambunctious and some scarring on her head from a picky pet store employee). Her BM's have been frequent and nice and solid, I couldn't have been happier until the past two days and more worryingly, today. Yesterday she was reluctant to drink water but I was okay with this as she ate some sprayed lettuce and her regular crickets. However today she didn't poop all day(until like 5 minutes ago and I'm about to put her to bed) and won't drink any water. She had a nice warm bath and ate like she normally does, when she finally pooped it was runny and there were red lumps in it.

    This is where it gets REALLY frustrating. The food she is eating is exactly the same as what Lagu is eating and he just pooped on our comforter yesterday(although today, nada but that's nothing unusual for him). She has sufficient heat, cool spots, uv, etc, she has everything readily available to her the only thing really of concern is their substrate which, if you read my introductory post, you know I've been having a really hard time with, they are both on Crushed Walnut(yeah, I know, I'm working on it). She is acting perfectly normal, just like herself, cute, inquisitive, running around and hugging her driftwood soaking up the "sun", climbing her background, just loving life.

    Tomorrow when we get up I am heading to work to pick up some non-adhesive shelf covering and making my boyfriend strip their houses and just lay down paper towel until I get home. What should I be looking out for before I dish out over $200 for a vet visit with a non-exotic vet(Newfoundland sucks), and probably another $100 to send poop to PEI for testing(again, Newfoundland, -blows raspberry-)?

    So, if she had parasites, wouldn't Lagu have them as well?
    What else should I be looking out for(signs of impaction)?
    What else could be causing red poop? I'm not even entirely sure it's blood.
    Could the crushed walnut just have hurt her tummy, if so, is it possible this could heal?

    She's pooping, I'm just not happy with WHAT and how OFTEN she is pooping. Am I being an over concerned mommy? Gosh, I've had horses colic before and it wasn't this stressful.

    Sorry for writing a novel,
    -Melissa, Mika and Lagu.
     
  2. Dragoness

    Dragoness Elite Member

    often times, red veggies come out the same color as they went in. Could it be something she ate that was red or red-ish?

    The walnut shells could definitely be a problem. The sooner they are gone, the better!

    If she is good about defecating regularly, just watch her for now. If her next poops look normal, it was probably something that just irritated her tummy (perhaps the walnut). or something she ate (such as something red - strawberry perhaps?)

    For some reason, they feet beets to the animals at work (zoo), once in a while. They usually post memos about it so the keepers don't get concerned about the color of feces the next day. Beets are the worst, but I'm sure other veggies can contribute to poop color.
     
  3. Merlin

    Merlin Administrator Staff Member Premium Member

    Ok telling us that everything is ok is not telling us anything. We need details, numbers etc.
    And exactly what are you feeding. Lettuce is not an appropriate food for a bearded dragon.
     
  4. schlegelbagel

    schlegelbagel Frog Lover Premium Member

    you could work on it RIGHT NOW, instead of putting it off. Vacuum out the walnut, go to the grocery store, pick up the sunday newspaper for $1.00 and put it down. Problem solved.
     
  5. mld

    mld Subscribed User Premium Member

    I know you mention
    But that doesn't tell us very much. Please post picture of her tank and give us a complete rundown of it, exact temps of cool, warm, basking spot, what you are using to measure it. cage dimensions, all of these are very importuned. As well as what kinds of supplements you are giving and how often.
    Here is a caresheet on bearded dragons
    Bearded Dragon Caresheet (Pogona vitticeps)

    This is a section on the diet, its a couple of pages.
    Bearded Dragon Diet (Pogona vitticeps)
     
  6. Mellu

    Mellu Active Member

    It was like 4 am when I wrote this, kind of hard to do anything at that point in time. I'm working on it as in, I know it's a problem and as soon as it is possible I am going to fix it. Can't exactly run a vaccum at 4 am in a house full of sleeping people. Thank you for your concern all the same, I really appreciate it.

    MLD, thanks so much :).
    Her tank is a 20 gallon, she has 75 watt sun glow bulb(tight beam exo-terra) during the day time, at night an exo-terra night glow 75 watt. Her basking temp is about 95, I was considering getting a 100 watt to up that a little, and about 75-80 at night. We have an exo-terra thermometer and hygrometer to measure the temps in the different parts of the tank. For furniture she has a driftwood inherited from her brother which is up on the same side as her light and a rock cave on her cool side. I'm going to go take a picture now and upload it shortly. Edit: Forgot to mention the supplement she gets is Calcium and d3, about once a week on her crickets as well as free choice kibble(Exo-terra juvenile) not that I've ever seen her "choose" it, haha.

    Merlin, we've been feeding Lagu mixed greens for a long time and always included romaine! Everything else I've read said it was a-ok! The things you learn! I will pick up some collard greens and baby spinach today and see how they like those. All summer we had him on turnip greens because I eat them daily(they're my favorite and his too!), once October rolled around they were impossible to find. Thank you :)


    These are the best I could do with my phone camera:
    0205011327.jpg
    0205011327a.jpg
    She's out of the tank hanging out with us as we are just about to clean out the walnut shells.
     

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  7. Mellu

    Mellu Active Member

    Also, what about soaked alfalfa cubes? I'm familiar with these as a horse owner and I see in the list that alfalfa is a good treat(just like it is for ponies). So since it's something I have readily available would a greens meal in the form of a mash(soaked warm alfalfa cubes) be suitable once a week?
     
  8. mld

    mld Subscribed User Premium Member

    Hi there, just a few more things! Sorry;)

    For Mika (hatchlings) You will want to dust one meal (crickets) per day with the Calcium with D3, Dust two meal per week with a multivitamin.

    Those exo terra Juvenile pellets are great for feeding to your crickets for gut loading. A lot of them have fillers and fresh is always best.

    For Lagu ( juvenile from 5-18 months of age) you will want to dust his crickets with calcium with D3 only 3 meals a week. Dust one meal a week with multivitamin.
    When Lagu becomes an adult (more than 18 months of age) This will change again. Dust every third day with Calcium without D3( pure calcium with no phosphorus). Dust with Calcium with D3 once a week, and a multivitamin once a week. Make sure that you offer you multivitamin on a different day as the calcium, it will cancel each other out.

    I'm sure that you already know that Mika will need a larger tank soon, a healthy dragon will grow a lot in the first few months. Temperatures are also very important for proper digestion of their food. one side of the enclosure should be the hot side and the opposite side should be the cool side. You should provide a hide on each side, water should always be available even though they will get the majority of their water from their food. They should have a basking spot of a temperature of 100-110 degrees on the hot side, ambient temperatures of 90-95 degrees, and cool side between 75-85 degrees, nigh time temperature can go down to 75 degrees. The best way to measure the temperatures is with a digital thermometer with a probe, the probe can be placed anywhere you want to know the temp, it's always a good idea to know the basking temperature so by placing the probe of the thermometer directly on the basking spot will ensure that you know those temperatures you'll want them to be between 100-110 degrees. UVB is also very important, it provides vitamin D and is needed for the absorption of calcium.

    As for the lettuce or mixed baby green they are just a mixture of lettuces. You should really stick with the staple greens and veggies.
    Collard Greens
    Mustard Greens
    Dandelion Greens
    Turnip Greens
    Escarole
    Parsley
    Squashes (Spaghetti, butternut)
    Alfalfa (Not the sprouts)

    As for spinach, pigweed,beet greens, and swiss chard it should only be offer occasionally because It contains a calcium-binding chemical that prevents the bearded dragons from metabolizing ingested calcium. Its best just to stay away from these greens.

    Your basking temps are really low, and Mika will have a hard time digesting her food. You may be loosing a lot of heat through the top, for a hatchling you really want your basking spot to be 105-110 for proper digestion. 95 will not do!
     
  9. schlegelbagel

    schlegelbagel Frog Lover Premium Member

    "I'm working on it" made it seem like you have been thinking about replacing it for a while, but have not. I was pointing out a simple and quick solution! Glad it was a 4am discovery.
     
  10. Mellu

    Mellu Active Member

    Trust me when I say I'm working on it! I am on the ball! haha! Again, I appreciate the concern, it makes me happy to see that other people care just as much has I do ^_^. I fixed the situation as soon as I could, she's on paper towel now AND I have good news, she made not only one beautiful poop but two(so maybe I WAS overreacting? Well, better safe than sorry!)

    I bought new bulbs for her and the boy today and she was actually venting on her drift wood, so I think we got it right this time :). I actually noticed one of those thermometers at the store today and was wondering about it, I'll pick one up tomorrow, for the hygrometer, will the one that I have already suffice?

    I think to create a hide on her warm side I will get her a hollowed out half-log like lagu has, only in baby size, they're so cheap and it would fit right under her driftwood!

    Thanks for letting me know about the vitamins, I've always been very cautious with them as I have known people who over do it and just harm their critters(and in some cases, themselves). I'll pick up a separate multivitamin tomorrow or Monday if the snow it's calling for rears it's ugly head.

    She had some collard greens today and picked at them until she had enough, Lagu enjoyed them as well! I picked up a bag of Alfalfa after work I'll try them with that tomorrow, again should I dampen it or give it to them dry? It's not cubes so it doesn't need to be soaked. Dry hay tends to be dusty.

    I'm getting some overdue money tomorrow and I know what it will be going towards. You guys have been sanity savers! Thank you soso much :).

    I can't wait to get her her new home!
     
  11. mld

    mld Subscribed User Premium Member

    Good luck with tomorrows storm I hope we don't get too much! But you know the Atlantic provinces, weather changes every 5 minutes. I'm really surprised that St. Johns hasn't got as much snow as they normally do.
     
  12. Mellu

    Mellu Active Member

    Okay, well that was scary. I tried to feed her when I got home, but she was not interested in crickets at all which I didn't like. I just had her out laying on my chest for like ten minutes(she likes the heat, I like the bonding, lol) and I noticed she wasn't comfy and kept fidgeting and then I heard what I can only describe as a hiccup. I felt her tummy and she had a little lump. I was concerned so we put her on her driftwood and kept an eye on her from the bed and she threw up. It consisted of three very stinky crickets(no walnut, though) that weren't way too big or anything. I gave her a warm bath as I read that they get dehydrated very quickly after vomiting and this is the best way to try to rehydrate them, rubbed her tummy a bit. The lump in her tummy is gone and she looks alert and is walking fine, again she pooed earlier, normal, solid poop.

    We put her to bed a while ago. I am HOPING that this is just because of possibly wonky temperatures. She ate greens earlier, none of those came up(how is that possible), I'm so very confused. Lagu was never this much worry as a baby.

    I know there isn't really any advice that can be given on this, I just wanted to keep you guys in the loop about what is going on with my little Mika-monster. I'll be watching her like a hawk tomorrow, that's for sure, going to school on Monday and leaving her is going to kill me.
     
  13. mld

    mld Subscribed User Premium Member

    Sounds like you work shift work, or late at night!
    Its best not to feed her when you get home if you work too late.
    No handling for a couple of hours after eating!
    Give her time to properly digest her food and bask after eating!
    I had a routine for my dragon, first thing in the morning at around 6:30 amI would turn on her heat and lights, then take her out for a warm bath at 85 degrees, cuddle her for a few minutes then put her back in the tank and feed her as many crickets as she would eat, remove any uneaten crickets so they didn't nibble on her. Then I would let her bask. I fed her several times a day 3-4 times then I wouldn't feed her after 7pm and shut the lights out at about 10pm
     
  14. teach920

    teach920 Subscribed User Premium Member

    Ditto on the above...Basically just want to make sure that anyone reading this post realizes that:
    was a typo. It should have read 105-110 degrees.
     
  15. mld

    mld Subscribed User Premium Member

    OMG, thanks Connie for catching that one, the 0 is right beside the 9. I will be more careful, 105 and 195 is a big temperature difference, wouldn't want to cook the little one.:">
     
  16. Mellu

    Mellu Active Member

    Well, this morning I gave her a two drops of olive oil, a warm bath and then put her in her house(where her brand new bulb decided to **** out :D/not). She's been in under an infared and her UVB light(which is a coil, we're gonna replace them tomorrow), the pet stores weren't open today. Anyway after a day of lounging under her light she made a huuuge poop, and it was like 80% crushed walnut(and so stinky!), I'm thinking it should mostly be out of her system now, I'm going to put her to bed at about 11(it's 8 now), should I give her some crickets just to see if she'll peck at them? I'm about to offer her some wet greens.

    Edit:Okay I just put some in and it seems like she's interested in them but doesn't want to actually go after them. They're definitely small enough, any that are too big I pick out(I've always done this, I give the bigger ones to Lagu). Almost like she is reluctant, Lagu is taken out of the room completely when she is feeding because I noticed she always looks in the direction of his tank when she hesitates. She isn't interested in collard greens. Should I go pick up some organic baby food if she won't hunt?
     
  17. mld

    mld Subscribed User Premium Member

    As long as she has two hours under the basking light to digest, if not, wait till the morning.
     
  18. Mellu

    Mellu Active Member

    She does but again it's quite weird watching her. The crickets are in there and she's watching them like a hawk and almost like stalking them, but not striking. Then she gives up and runs up her branch, she just wants to bask.
     
  19. mld

    mld Subscribed User Premium Member

    She may not be hungry, just remove any uneaten crickets since you 2 hour window is over.
     
  20. Mellu

    Mellu Active Member

    Yeah, I picked them out and just threw them in with Lagu's next meal an hour ago. I'm going to leave her alone for the night and try tomorrow, if she is still not interested I'll give her some warmed baby food(I bought Heinz organic butternut squash and Heinz strained Chicken with broth, ingredients listed are chicken, chicken broth and spice).
     

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