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Please help! MBD!?

Discussion in 'Chameleons' started by Koga_Steelfang, Jan 20, 2005.

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  1. No, this animal was NOT forgotten about! We had food for her, just not crickets. We had mealworms that she gladly ate. I'm sure the light wasn't off for long either... but the fact that I can't remember is throwing doubt into my argument. The only reason she can't eat on her own is because of her jaw/tongue dysfunction. She still tries to swallow what I place in her mouth.

    I see that some you are judging me as a bad person/owner because my Chameleon got sick and can't explain how it happened. I came here seeking help, and found some really helpful people that gave good advice... but I can't but feel that some of the posts are more directed at me causing her illness rather than helping me out.
    *NOTE* I know it is probably my fault she is sick, I don't need that thrown back at me when I am doing everything in my power to save her.

    BTW: We replaced her substrate with paper. We gave her a nice warm shower by sprinkling water over her. We are also going to call our vet again and see if she can do anything for her jaw.

    Also, she probably could climb if I placed her on a branch, I just don't wanna risk her falling and getting hurt worse. She likes it on the bottom a lot too, she has always like exploring the bottom of the pen. She just doesn't make the effort to try to climb up onto the branch herself, but she does walk/crawl, claw at the sides of the pen, is looking around. As a matter of fact, she is acting fairly normally now aside from her jaw.
  2. steel rip

    steel rip Elite Member

    I am sorry if I sounded unhelpful and harsh, I really didnt mean too, I know you are doing all you can to help your baby, I was just a bit confused about the lighting, your cham sounds very poorly and I am just worried for you and your cham, I have just had a baby gecko die, I tried my best to help her live, so I know how you must be feeling right now, again I am sorry I really didnt mean it to sound like you are not caring for your pet, it is obvious you are, I suppose I read into things a little to much, I really hope your cham gets well, and glad to hear he is up and about and looking better.
  3. You don't need to apologize. I'm the one who should be apologizing. I didn't mean to get defensive about it, I am just under a lot of stress trying to care for her. I thought you were implying I wasn't taking care of her.
    I'm sorry.

    Current Situation: Our vet said that she still couldn't do anything. She said that the Chameleon is too small to get a good X-ray of her. She said that even grown Iguanas are too small for X-rays. I am praying very hard that she recovers. In fact, I've been praying for a while that she would be 100% recovered by tonight(26th). Now she sometimes reaches up and grab her mouth and pulls on it. Her jaw also popped(Is that the right word?) once when she puffed up at our water filled syringe. So hopefully its just mi-alligned and she'll work it back into place.
  4. steel rip

    steel rip Elite Member

    I am praying with you, hope your little cham gets better soon, sounds like she may of dislocated her jaw, thats what the pop sound might of been, her trying to put it straight, did the vet give you any diagnosis on what might be wrong with her? please keep us updated....
  5. Merlin

    Merlin Administrator Staff Member Premium Member

    Your vet is wrong! The size of an animal is irrelevant when it comes to an xray. And particularly iguanas are routinely xrayed to check for MBD as well as whether they have eggs. You need to talk to a different vet.
  6. Bitis Gabonica

    Bitis Gabonica Elite Member

    Koga.. no-one is trying to imply to place blame here, we are all just trying to help you get the best for your cham, who is obviously very sick and needs expert advice. By coming on here and requesting advice you are showing care for your pet, but there is only so much we can do by posting. Merlin is right, you need to find another vet - your cham is not too small to be x-rayed,. we took a hatchling dragon to the vet once and she was x-rayed with no problems. How old/big is your cham? Find a better vet, who can help you the way you need to be helped.

    As for the posts which you feel have been directed negatively at you - I'm sure no offence was meant by any of them. We all care a great deal for animals on here, and we just want the best for every one of them. I myself was a little concerned, admittedly, when you said you didn't know how long the UV light had been off for - this caused me a great deal of confusion, because I personally cannot understand how you could not see that it was off. Also, what have you been keeping your humidity levels at? - this could be another cause of your cham's illness. They are very needy creatures who require spot-on conditions, and there are many reasons why s/he could be ill. I don't think his jaw is dislocated in some way, or if so then it may be injured from a time when she was trying to catch food or something. The animal may have some kind of illness.. Can anyone advise Koga where she can find a vet that knows something about reptiles who can help her better than the one she has already visited?

    We are all hoping in vain that your cham is ok., good luck.
  7. Merlin

    Merlin Administrator Staff Member Premium Member

    Virgina Herp Vets (from

    Caroline Seitz
    3450 Reedy Dr
    Annandale, VA 22003

    Dr Jeffrey Wimsatt
    3190 Priddy Ct
    Barboursville, VA 22923

    Dr Keath L. Marx
    Seaven Seas Vet Services
    2124 Mount Tabor Rd
    Blacksburg, VA 24060-8910

    Dr Sayed S. Masood
    All Pets Veterinary Hospital
    43112 John Mosby Hwy
    Suite 102
    Chantilly, VA 20152

    Jonathan M. Sleeman
    1012 Glendale Rd
    Charlottesville, VA 22901

    Dr. Greg Chrisawn
    Dumfries Animal Hospital
    17552 Main St
    PO Box 610
    Dumfries, VA 22026

    Dr Rose Ann Fiskett
    Potomac Valley Vet Hosp
    9553 Braddock Rd
    Fairfax, VA 22032-2539

    Dr Scott J. Stahl
    12505 Easter Ln
    Fairfax, VA 22030

    Dr Anne Hiss
    9304 Arlington Blvd
    Fairfax, VA 22031

    Dr Richard Krason Jr
    1705 Memorial Ave
    Lynchburg, VA 24501

    Dr. Brandon Brooks
    12620 Nettles Dr
    Newport News, VA 23606

    Randall S. Dunsmore
    11117 Jefferson Ave
    Newport News, VA 23601

    Paul Gustafson
    11117 Jefferson Ave
    Newport News, VA 23601

    Dr Barrett T. Betz
    Greenbush Vet Clinic
    PO Box 377
    Parksley, VA 23421-0377

    Dr Susan Donoghue
    477 New Zion Rd
    Pembroke, VA 24136

    Kevin M. Kelley
    1519 Split Oak Ln
    Apt J
    Richmond, VA 23229-5291

    Dr Michael Engel
    Pets First
    9201 Staples Mill Rd
    Richmond, VA 23228-2026

    Paul Stewart
    3465 Kenwick Trail
    Roanoke, VA 24018

    Dr James W. Poage
    5146 Hildebrand Rd NW
    Roanoke, VA 24012-1538

    Dr Hanna Siemering
    Exotic Pet Clinic
    7297 Commerce St
    Springfield, VA 22150-3411

    Dr Neal S. Nelson
    8102 Ashtonbirch Dr
    Springfield, VA 22152-3021

    Dr Hillary Segl
    7416 Jervis St
    Springfield, VA 22151

    "Dr Herbert A. Hulls, DVM"
    Pet Care Vet Hospital
    5201 Virginia Beach Blvd #A
    Virginia Beach, VA 23462-1825

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From
    Amanda C. Hayden, DVM
    Centerville Animal Hospital
    417 S. Centerville Turnpike
    Chesapeake, VA 23322
    Tel: (757) 482-9410

    Ruth Ann MacQueen, DVM
    Midway Veterinary Hospital
    1646 S. Military Highway
    Chesapeake,VA 23320
    Tel: (757) 366-4050

    Gregory S. Chrisawn, DVM
    Dumfries Animal Hospital
    17552 Main St.
    P.O. Box-610
    Dumfries, VA 22026
    Tel: (703) 221-1880

    Janice Raab, DVM
    Scott J. Stahl, DVM, DABVP (relocated to Vienna; see below for listing)
    Eastern Exotic Veterinary Center
    4001 Legato Road
    Fairfax, VA 22033
    Tel: (703) 654-3100

    Cedarcrest Animal Clinic
    PO Box 375
    Route 631
    Fishersville, VA 22939
    Tel: (540) 943-7577

    Robert S. Dove, DVM
    Companion Animal Clinic of Gainesville
    14760 Lee Highway
    Gainesville, VA 20155
    Tel: (703) 754-8387
    Fax: (703) 754-0533

    Newport News
    Paul Gustafson, DVM
    Warwick Animal Hospital
    11117 Jefferson Avenue
    Newport News, VA 23601
    Tel: (757) 595-3337

    Denise G. Cisco, DVM
    Friendship Veterinary Hospital
    1231 W. Little Creek Road
    Norfolk, VA 23505
    Tel: (757) 489-4083

    Michael Engel, DVM
    Pets First Animal Hospital
    9201 Staples Mill Road
    Richmond, VA 23228
    Tel: (804) 672-3576

    Hanna Siemering, DVM
    Exotic Pet Clinic
    7297 Commerce Street
    Springfield, VA 22150-3411
    Tel: (703) 451-3414

    Lock Boyce DVM
    Boyce-Holland Veterinary Services
    21047 Jeb Stuart Highway
    Stuart, VA 24171
    Tel: (540) 694-3564
    Tel: (540) 694-4110 emergency

    Scott J. Stahl, DVM, DABVP - Avian
    David A. Crum, DVM
    Stahl Exotic Animal Veterinary Services
    111-A Center Street, South
    Vienna, VA 22180
    Tel: (703) 281-3750

    Virginia Beach
    Hilltop Veterinary Clinic
    1732 Laskin Road
    Virginia Beach, VA 23454
    Tel: (757) 425-6790

    Herbert A. Hulls, DVM
    Peter Fisher, DVM
    Pet Care Veterinary Hospital
    5201-A Virginia Beach Boulevard
    Virginia Beach, VA 23462
    Tel: (757) 473-0111

    David H. Morris, DVM
    Virginia Beach Veterinary Hospital
    2013 Pleasure House Road
    Virginia Beach, VA 23455
    Tel: (757) 460-3308
  8. Rocky's Dad

    Rocky's Dad Elite Member

    Sorry that I missed all this. A couple thoughts occur to me - the UVB bulb needs to be replaced, regardless - it's at least six months old. If the cham is sitting at the bottom of the cage, even if on, the UVB bulb is doing no good - florescent bulbs only get beneficial rays 6-12" - they need to be able to climb up close to the bulb. The same is true with your heat lamp. If your cham can't climb up there, you need to make sure it's getting all the heat and UV it needs down at the bottom, which is hard to do. I agree that a herp vet is critical at this point, but the calcium supplementation that you are doing will be useless if the cham cannot convert it with the UVB.

    If the cham cannot get up to the bulb - you might want to get a mercury vapor bulb - the UVB rays penetrate much further with these bulbs.

    What is the temp at the bottom of the cage where the cham is spending all it's time?
  9. Rocky's Dad

    Rocky's Dad Elite Member

    I realize I was a couple days late to this thread - and no news. I would guess that's not a good sign... :(
  10. Bitis Gabonica

    Bitis Gabonica Elite Member

    Good points Rocky's Dad, the only thing I would suggest is that mercury vapour bulbs are often harmful to chams. They require much less UVB than other lizards, and can easily overdose, which is why tubes and bulbs outside of the mesh cage are suggested, however I understand what you are saying, and you are right that the UVB will not reach the cham at the bottom of the cage.

    Koga.. any news? We are all thinking of your baby, please let us know how s/he is doing.
  11. Sorry for not posting lately, my PC has something wrong with it and I couldn't get online.

    Anyway, she seems to be slowly(Very slowly) improving. Her jaw is firming up again(Was squishy), and she is getting stronger. Although she still doesn't climb, or eat on her own, I believe she is recovering. The only thing I worry about is her tongue... she still hangs it out and the end is all dried up. She seems to want to pull it out, she often reaches up and grabs and pulls on it(I didn't even know they could reach their mouths with their feet!). I take this as a sign that her tongue bothers her the most.

    I tried to post a picture of her the other day... but my PC problem kept interupting it. Maybe I can post one soon.

    PS: Thanks for all the support!
  12. CodyW

    CodyW Elite Member

    Did you manage to get your cham to a vet? This is the only way to fully rehab your cham. It sounds like there are respiratory problems (from wrong temps) and a tongue infection (possibly, but hopefully just a hyperextension.) If the tongue is hyper extended and not fully retracting there is a possibility that it can dry up and be permanently damaged. It is recommend to put it into a quarantine tank with wet paper towels to keep it from drying up, but this might lead to more respiratory problems (if that is the case). Hyperextension is usually self-corrected within 24 hours, if it isn't it needs immediate vet attention. Also if the cham is too weak to 'bask' and get the vital UVB it needs there needs to be a vet visit. Sorry to sound so redundant but I feel the best and unfortunately only way to full recovery is a vet visit. If you can't find a qualified one call one out of area for advice, herp vets are usually the most understanding and compasionate of all the vets, I'm sure a few calls would find you someone willing to at least help over the phone.

    Best of Luck!
  13. Bitis Gabonica

    Bitis Gabonica Elite Member

    Thanks for the update Koga, unfortunately it still sounds like your cham is very sick - I really don't think this problem will get better on its own. I'm with Cody on this one - Merlin listed a number of vets, have you tried calling them or visiting them?
  14. Merlin

    Merlin Administrator Staff Member Premium Member

    If the tongue is dried up and the tissue has died you are talking serious trouble. It may require being removed BY A VET or gangrene could set in resulting in the death of your animal! I am afraid that this point no matter what you are seeing and interpreting as being improvements, if you don't get proper veterinary care for it the cham will NOT survive.
  15. Thanks for all the advice guys, I really appreciate it. Sadly, Karma passed away yestrerday evening.

    The only piece of advice I couldn't accomplish was the vet visit. She seemed very strong active when I tried to feed her, Although she kept vomiting the cricket up. She eventually did keep the cricket down where I thought she had swallowed it... about an hour later, my mom called me to look at her color. She was bright green and black striped. I noticed she looked strange. I nudged her and she barely moved at all. She had crawled into her water dish and was resting when she passed away.

    While I am very sad at losing her, I am also relieved. She no longer has to live in pain while I couldn't get her help.
  16. Bitis Gabonica

    Bitis Gabonica Elite Member

    I am very sorry to hear about your loss. Sadly, without meaning to be offensive or add to your sadness, I think you had a responsibility to do more for the little guy/girl. Over here in the UK I'm afraid, while the authorities aren't clued up on reptiles, you could have been prosecuted for neglect. Please think about things seriously before you buy any more reptiles - you need to know that you can get to a vet if needed and that you can afford a vet if needed, there are only so many things we can do, as well researched as we are, as hobbyiests.

    I hope your little one rests in peace, and I'm glad that s/he is no longer in pain. I was feeling the little one's pain throughout this thread.
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