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Not Eating After Antibiotics, What Should I Do?

Discussion in 'Bearded Dragons' started by Fellowdt23, May 11, 2012.

  1. murrindindi

    murrindindi Elite Member

    Hi, looking at the pics I agree with Merlin, he`s gaping in order to cool down, why have you got a heat bulb at each side (if they are both heat bulbs)? And I think the UVB tube may be too high, what`s the distance from that to the lizard when he`s basking, as it needs to be within a maximum of 25cm (10inches) to be of any use. Also, I can`t see any hides?
    As it seems he`s now over the RI, you need a cool side of approx 21 to 24c (72 to 75f) ambient, then just the surface temp at the basking site of between approx 40 to 43c (105 to 110f), no other temp matters.
  2. Fellowdt23

    Fellowdt23 Active Member

    Hi yeah i have a gauge sitting on the surface area of basking aswell as the one on the wall, the one on the wall is from the dimmer so ive positioned that slighlty further away from basking area so that i get the right readings as the dimmers dial can only turn to 35.

    The one placed on basking surface reads 106
    And no he has his mouth open ever so slightly most of the time which worries me as he finished his course of antibiotic on monday

    Hi i hope your right i have actualy got a probe measuring basking surface aswell as the one on the wall
    And also the other light is just a standard energysaver bulb to brighten his tank its not always on
    The uvb is around 13 inches from ground up and 11 from basking spot baring in mind hes not on his basking spot so he'll be around 9 inches from it!

    Im just frighened to lower temps incase the RI repeats itself scares me a little you think hes over it?

    Oh and before i forget i have a hide at front of the tank that he likes to stand on and look out
    Also he use to go behind the rock you see him standing on but i pushed that against the wall for time being as he stayed behind it alot when he was ill
  3. justor

    justor Elite Member

    I have a question for you Fellowdt23. You say he finishes his antibiotic treatment on Monday... are you still giving him the probiotics you mentioned earlier?

    Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but wouldn't offering probiotics during an antibiotic treatment be counter-productive? I figure it would be more appropriate to wait until the antibiotic treatment has been completed before introducing probiotics to replenish the "good" bacteria???
  4. Fellowdt23

    Fellowdt23 Active Member

    Also any idea why even when out the tank his mouth is ever so slightly open at the tip and he feels reasonably cold to touch not how i would imagine an over heated dragon i am going to take your points on board but im sure you understand that this respiratory infection never left him after the first attempt at treating it so im a little worried about turning temps down

    Hi yes i agree thats what i thought but was told to offer them 12 hours apart and to be honest he was taking very little of it
    The reason i was told to give it was that if they dont get it during the course of treatment then they can get all sorts of fungal infections like yellow fungus, i never gave probiotics first time i treated him but at the same time he ate every day compared to this time practically nothing but i do understand that baytril is harsh on there system im more worried about reducing temps incase he still has it im not sure if he has mouth open slightly most of the time because he is over heating in tank or because he is still suffering :/
  5. mld

    mld Subscribed User Premium Member

    I agree with the others, your thermometer is not touching the surface of the basking spot. Plus its basically in the middle of the enclosure, it should be on the hot side. If its just hanging in the air and not touching something then it's reading the air temp and if your temps are that high he is definitely trying to cool down with his mouth open.
  6. murrindindi

    murrindindi Elite Member

    Hi again, how exactly are you measuring the basking temp, you say it`s "roughly" 100 to 105f, and is the basking site on the left of the tank? You need to provide proper hiding places, there should be several throughout the enclosure.
    When you say the Baytril didn`t work the first time, how many days was he on it?
  7. justor

    justor Elite Member

    In post #5 in this thread it was stated:
    "He was treated about 6 weeks ago with a 10 day course of baytril and treated again about 2 weeks ago because it wasnt gone since i finished last course i was hoping it was gone but he still sits with mouth open most of the time and hes even when not basking"

    Is the second treatment the one that is supposed to finish on Monday?
  8. Fellowdt23

    Fellowdt23 Active Member

    Hi i have a white digital thermo on right hand side of his cage reading the basking surface area i will upload another picture

    Hi heres a new photo just changed his tank so that i could raise the height of basking spot there for make the coolside cooler at the same time i have another thermostat i will hook up to the basking area to help regulate the temps better

    The second picture is of the white digital gauge ive been using to read the basking surface temp in the picture its not quite reached the desired temps yet as ive only just put his new basking area in, is this set up better for hides and stuff?
    Try and not pay attention to the empty light fixtures on roof of the tank they are all from along time ago and dont get used

    Photo 1
    9a8da2c6.jpg picture by footballdt23 - Photobucket

    Photo 2
    fa0c2419.jpg picture by footballdt23 - Photobucket

    Hi the last treatment finished on monday 5 days ago!

    Bare in mind the basking spot is controlled by a dimming thermostat just before anyone asks lol!!
  9. mld

    mld Subscribed User Premium Member

    You have so many probes!
    So the white one on the rock is for basking temps,
    What is the exo terra one that is wrapped around the branch for and what is the one that is coming down from above for?
  10. murrindindi

    murrindindi Elite Member

    O.k, now I can see clearly how it`s set up, the basking rock has a space so he can get under which is good, you need a similar thing at the other side, always offer them the choice of warm/cool. The half log is o.k to climb on, not much use as a hide, it`s too big, and open at both ends.
    I think once you get the surface temp and ambient on the other side stabilised at least you`ll know the conditions are good.
    Not eating normally isn`t too much of a worry just now, he seems to have good weight. If he has a favourite food try that (or have you already), and have you seen him taking a drink recently?

    Another question; what wattage is the basking bulb, and does half the enclosure have a sand substrate?
  11. Fellowdt23

    Fellowdt23 Active Member

    Hi yes ive tried different foods hopefully he will pick up soon, ive given him water by syringe that he drinks quite happily himself and theres actually another rock that he was sitting on on the cold side that he use to hide behind i will pull that rock slighltly out from wall again so he can get in behind it to give him another hide only pushed it in because when he was ill he hid behind it all the time and i was told to try and keep him in warm side!

    The exo terra probe is humidity only and the one on side of tank is from the dimmer controlling the basking bulb i dont actually use it against the surface area because its control only goes upto 35c and to get it hotter than that i hve to put the probe further away from the basking light and its not digital thats why i keep it slightly off so that i get the desired temps and also thats why i have the other one reading the basking surface temp instead.

    Its all a bit of a muddle at the minute because i was trying to sort it but no matter what i do i cant get the coolside low enough during the day?

    Hi yes half of his encloser is sand only recently added hes not been eating any of it and he also pooped tonight for first time for a few days from the baby food been fed as directed by the vet got to hand it in tomorow to get it tested for parasites

    The bulb wattage is 100w i have a 75 watt i could change to?
  12. murrindindi

    murrindindi Elite Member

    Things are starting to make more sense! There`s no problem with sand and adult dragons, I just wondered when you said he was on lino now, I thought it looked like sand.
    You need a digital thermometer with a probe (or a "Temp-gun"), the probe MUST touch the actual basking object. You can get both on ebay quite cheaply (new).
    You haven`t said what the room temps are?
    I`m not sure why you want the basking surface on a thermostat, it isn`t a precise figure, it can be slightly higher than 43c (110f), because it`s only the surface of an object, not an air temp. I can assure you the surfaces they frequent in the wild can get higher than that at times, and they still bask, just not as long!
  13. Fellowdt23

    Fellowdt23 Active Member

    Hi i have a probe touching the actual basking surface also and it reads between 103 and 106, and what i do to control the basking temp is move the other probe attatched to the dimmer either closer (dimms the light) or fruther away (makes light brighter and work harder) from basking bulb until the basking spot surface reads the correct temp on the other thermometer hope tht makes sense abit!!

    Could you by any chance give a ebay link for the kind of probe you mean? And how do i control the basking bulb if its not through a dimmer?
  14. mld

    mld Subscribed User Premium Member

    Finding that sweet spot is the best way! If your cool side temps are too high try a lower wattage bulb and rise the basking are. I keep several different heights for my dragon, so she can decide which one she wants, and she does tend to change the areas she basks at several times a day.
  15. Fellowdt23

    Fellowdt23 Active Member

    Hi yeah i think i will lower the wattage see how it goes and raise the basking area slighlty problem with wooden vivs are you only have so much height to play with as the bulb is actualy in the tank and not sitting on the top! For some reason when he was younger in his 3ft viv i never had any problems just sruggling to get them right in the larger tank but it knid of suited me when he wasnt well as he needed hotter temps anyway fingers crossed hes better
  16. murrindindi

    murrindindi Elite Member

    Here`s the type and model of Temp-gun I use: (Ebay) item # 120908884716 there`s 3 hours left, I think I paid just over £20 ($30 U.S).
  17. Fellowdt23

    Fellowdt23 Active Member

    Thanks will hopefully win it, i take it you just place this on your basking surface? Looks the part definatly looks like it will be more accurate than what ive got at the minute
  18. murrindindi

    murrindindi Elite Member

    Yes, the top part comes off, then place it on the surface of what you want to measure, you should use it throughout the enclosure so you know both the highest and lowest surface temps (such as inside the hides). It`s worth £20, so don`t go over that (unless money is no object, in which case go ridiculously high).... ;)
  19. Fellowdt23

    Fellowdt23 Active Member

    Thanks everyone for the help today will try and sort the temps on cooler side tomorrow, and will buy a temperature probe to get accurate reading of surfaces on top of what i already use! Now that tank is going to be cooler i will soon find out if my boys still not well or if indeed it was to hot for him hope hes not still ill fingers crossed hes getting better.

    Morning!! Well he ate a locust this morning good sign i suppose, ive managed to reduce cool side to 81 think thats ok?
    Basking air temperature is 96.8 obviously the surface area will be hotter so ive bought a heat gun from ebay to check that surface temp properly next week but i figured if the air temp is above 95 which is the lowest recomended temp for a dragon he should be ok?

    He still proceeds to open his mouth that tiny we bit even when not basking but doesnt seem to be struggling for breath!

  20. murrindindi

    murrindindi Elite Member

    Hi again, if the 95f ambient temp is accurate it`s much too warm, I suspect the surface at the basking spot will be somewhere between 130 and 140f!? The air figure is not where the animal thermoregulates, he does that at the basking site.
    Imagine on a hot day (not that it ever gets hot in the U.K), but if the air temp were in the 90s, the pavement surface would be extremely hot to the touch, that in effect is what you`re trying to recreate; warm air temps. hotter on the surface, but within reason! I`m almost sure he`s gaping because it`s much too warm all round.
    EDIT: You cannot work this out by ambient air temps, other than the cool side needs to be approx 21 to 24c (72 to 75F), then the only other temp to get right is the surface of the basking spot @ approx 40 to 43c (105 to 110F).

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