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Multiple Species Vivarium

Discussion in 'HH General Discussion' started by GumboJones, Jul 26, 2012.

  1. skelly98

    skelly98 Elite Member

    the only flaw with your idea is, there are bacteria and archea to break down the toxins from toads in the wild, and i doubt that there would be enough microrganisims in a terrarium to do that. the toxins also accumulate in an animals system, so even if the anoles only go down once a week, for whatever reason, they will still get poisoned over time. just my 2c
  2. Merlin

    Merlin Administrator Staff Member Premium Member

    And add to this that a toad will pretty much eat anything that it can get in its mouth.
    If it moves the toad will try to catch it!
  3. Rakoladycz

    Rakoladycz Elite Member

    Toads release there toxins through the glands behind the eyes, typically when attacked. I am not aware that they are excreting this toxin constantly or would be aimlessly. To me this means the anole would have to attempt to eat the toad. As for the toad eating the anole, that is a risk that would have to be weighed. Should one keep the toad fed this would definitely minimize the chances but not eliminate the risk. There is risk in keeping multiples of anything do to aggression or stress, with the possibility of fatalities.
  4. GumboJones

    GumboJones Member

    Thanks for the info on local species Randy. I'll keep that in mind. I'm not sure If I'll be able to keep the temperature difference that the amphibians on the bottom would need. I wont know for sure until the tank is built though. I would also rather get captive bred specimans if I can help it.

    I think I may change my mind more then once before I finish this project, but I guess that's what more research will do to you. I'm thinking day geckos maybe the way i want to go. that would open up my possibilties for more exotic amphibians. I definetly am going to make a seperate dart tank though.

    skelly98, where have you heard that bacteria break down the toxins? I've never heard of that, I wouldnt mind reading up on that though. I always assumed that the any toxin made by an animal would just denature and deteriorate as soon as it was excrited. A bacteria that eats poison would be interesting to read about though.
  5. skelly98

    skelly98 Elite Member

    protiens can't deteriorate without radiation or something to break it down into amino acids.
  6. diehardislanders

    diehardislanders Elite Member

    These are my thoughts exactly. Can someone supply a few links or information indicating that all toads slowly poison anyone in their vicinity? I tried looking this up but cannot find suitable info.
  7. GumboJones

    GumboJones Member

    True radiation will destroy a protein, but water can breakdown a protein as well. A protien is also very pH dependent. If the pH of the enviroment it was meant to work at then the protien will denature. That's how your stomach digestes food. The enzyme that breaks food down needs a high pH, hence the sulfuric acid in your stomach. Just food for thought... pun intended haha

    Peptide bond - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
  8. skelly98

    skelly98 Elite Member

    that's kind of what i meant- in nature there are tannins (wich lower ph, but can still cause decay in the same way high ph can) from rotting leaves, bacteria, archea, aicds produced by decaying leaves, so on so forth. i just think that in a small terrarium, there would not be enough of this to break down toxins, really not even in a large enclosure. i also found this article about people getting poisoned by toads via cuts on their hands-
    Toxic Toads
    my thoughts are that, being an amphibian where the skin allows things in and out, the toad soaking in the water could absorb water, but by osmosis lose some of the toxin. not to mention if it interperets an anoles dewlap as a rival toad or something and it starts oozing toxin...
  9. Merlin

    Merlin Administrator Staff Member Premium Member

    Also keep in mind that out in the wild is a HUGE space! And with waterlevels ebbing and flowing thru rain etc. things get diluted.
    In the small area of an enclosed ecosystem this will keep accumulating and building up.

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