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Long Term Effects of MBD

Discussion in 'Herp Health' started by Dragoness, Apr 2, 2009.

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  1. Dragoness

    Dragoness Elite Member

    okay I was wondering if any damage (mostly of the jaw, and very mild at that) from metabolic bone disease ever reverses?

    I adopted my CWD last year in July, and she had metabolic bone disease, and as a result, looks a little funny in the face where the jaw bent inward a little, just beneath the eye (it is not very noticeable) Since her adoption into my care, she has been getting supplements and gut loaded bugs, and quite a lot of calcium. The jaw closes normally, and functions fine.

    will this ever reverse? or will she just have a funny mug the rest of her life?

    I'm assuming she'll look odd, but I thought I'd ask anyways.

    You can kind of see it in this picture (the bone is pushed in just above the lip, forcing the lip to face outwards)

  2. murrindindi

    murrindindi Elite Member

    Hi Dragoness, unfortunately no, it probably will not get back to "normal", but once the condition gets better, you shouldn`t have any problems. Keep up with the supplements! ( The main thing is, theres no problem eating!)
    Good luck, she looks fine!
  3. Dragoness

    Dragoness Elite Member

    I assumed as much, and at least it isn't serious damage - it has never made eating hard for her in any way, but when she first came to me, I was afraid to handle her she was so fragile. Vet saw her very next day and confirmed that she had MBD, which I was already pretty sure she had.

    I'm just glad it isn't serious, and it doesn't seem to effect her health in the least.
  4. kritrdr

    kritrdr Member

    Actually I have to respectfully disagree. Repair depends on time frame and lifespan. What I mean by that is if given the proper amount of dietary calcium and dietary and UV sources of vitamin
    D the bone will in fact remodel. Bone is a constantly changing organ albeit very slowly changing. What won't change is if there is any calcium deposited in the muscle. (That's how the body compensates for the weakness when it pulls calcium from the bone). Calcium in the muscle is permanent and most of the really severe cases of MBD have lots of muscular calcium deposit. (Which is why most cases seem to not heal.) Since this is a mild case (I presume) the bone will EVENTUALLY and slowly reform itself. The question is.... since reptiles metabolism is so slow will your little buddy live long enough to remodel the bone before you can visually notice? I don't know.

    Case in point ... purchased my iguana in 9th grade and had severe MBD including a rear leg fracture. When put on a proper diet and 10 years later the legs were normal including where the fracture site was.

    This is probably more than you wanted to know.... but we nerds can't help ourselves.:)

  5. murrindindi

    murrindindi Elite Member

    Sorry, I`ve never heard of deformed jaws caused by MBD "remodeling"? themselves! The fractures which occur to legs may well heal with little sign of previous probems, but bones in the jaw will usually not return to their previous "normal" shape! Please check out the following, to name just one source:
  6. Dragoness

    Dragoness Elite Member

    I got the dragon when she was 2 years, give or take, and had presumably lived in deplorable conditions for that entire time. Now, she does get a steady diet of crickets and super worms (gut loaded, supplemented) earthworms, sometimes roaches, and the occasional pinky. She is also under a Mega-Ray lamp. She has only been in my care since July 2008 - less than a year. I guess I'll just watch - her jaw works fine, and it really is pretty mild, so even if it doesn't mend, it will not affect her life drastically.
  7. murrindindi

    murrindindi Elite Member

    That`s great! I`m sure she`ll be fine now you`ve got her! It won`t mend, but so what! It`s only cosmetic, if there`s no problem feeding, she still looks good to me! If I didn`t already have a girlfriend.....
  8. Dragoness

    Dragoness Elite Member

    she is doing like 1000% better than when I got her. Her recovery is a long story, and I'm not 100% sure of the gender - though I suspect female. Her malnourishment was pretty severe, so ever since I got her, and she's been eating like a pig, a crest is starting to grow in - not as big as a male's YET, but definitely noticeable.

    I'll give her your regards!
  9. murrindindi

    murrindindi Elite Member

    At 3years of age, even with a mild case of MBD, if "she" was a "He" I think you would have noticed a larger crest etc.. by now, so yes, say "Hi! pretty girl"! from me! (Let`s hope I`m right!)
  10. Dragoness

    Dragoness Elite Member

    "she" is not developing any other masculine features - femoral pores, armpits, or anything. I'm thinking maybe the crest was small as the bodies way of preserving what few nutrients were given (owner fed mealworms once a week, thats it)

    previous owner told me it was female, because it had laid eggs (but I question their ability to distinguish urates from eggs). Don't have much else to go on.
  11. murrindindi

    murrindindi Elite Member

    No, I almost sure you`re right, it makes you wonder what these people buy them for in the first place, when they don`t even bother to find out what the animal even eats! Then again, some petstores are only interested in making a sale! (Which is why so many animals die within a few months.)
  12. kritrdr

    kritrdr Member

    Don't know what to tell you murrindindi, you either believe the physiology of osteoclastic destruction and concurrent osetoblastic reformation causing remodeling or you don't. Not really worth arguing over just making a point. Either way Dragoness you have a handsome dragon that will do well in your care. She is lucky to have you.

  13. murrindindi

    murrindindi Elite Member

    Hi Dan, as you say, not really worth arguing about, the animal`s in good hands now, so hopefully no more problems. With regard to the jaw bones "remodelling" I`m doubtful; the fracture you mention in your iguana`s leg is a totally different issue, unless there were complications, i.e. multiple fractures, or other complications and the injury received proper treatment, the leg after a period of 10 years probably wouldn`t show signs of previous injury! ( But it will be nice if you`re right about the jaw!)
    Take care,
  14. Kendalle

    Kendalle Elite Member

    There is a difference with the bones of the face and bones of the arms or legs. Bones in the face with MBD kind of melt they will bend and feel squishy with MBD and will squish in, once they do you could squish them back then treat with calcium and they would stay that way. But leg bones will snap and you can set them and they will fix, or they will snap and set wrong and always be crooked. Once the MBD starts to be fixed they will stay the way they are.
  15. murrindindi

    murrindindi Elite Member

    As it`s now been 9 months since "Dragoness" first got the animal, it`s doubtfull if the bone in the mandible will now return to it`s original condition, and as it`s such a minor defect, I don`t think there`s too much to worry about! The main thing is that the disease has been successfully treated.
  16. Dragoness

    Dragoness Elite Member

    it's just cosmetic, and she isn't bothered by it, so I'm not going to obsess over it either. was just a bit of curiosity.

    Thanks everyone for the input!
  17. shwknight

    shwknight Elite Member

    Well I think she's beautiful Dragoness :)
    If you hadn't pointed out where the problem was I don't think I would have even noticed ;)
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