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Discussion in 'Bearded Dragons' started by Thalatte, Jul 10, 2013.

  1. Thalatte

    Thalatte Elite Member

    Details: 90g tank (48x18x24 LxWxH in inches) with tile floor, rock stack, pvc and rope climbing branch, and water bowl.
    Temps: 76-78F ambient cool side. 90-115F surface of basking spot (depends on what level of the rock stack she is on) these are measured with a digital with probe and a temp gun.

    Diet: you dont want to know...but since you will ask she has 3 bowls. One that she occaisionally (well almost never) eats out of is her salad bowl it contains collards, red bell pepper, butternut squash, zuchini, a dash of carrot and apple. The other bowl has a bunch of superworms hidden in collard, kale, and various lettuces-with this she will get a few peices with everyworm and its the only way she eats salad. Last bowl is her water bowl and she drinks out of that after every meal.

    The issue: F020CE08-62E8-4ED6-93FE-DAAF41C5FC2E-14490-00000FA9FA5CE513.jpg 222F6219-2324-4691-9DE6-1A0F6A965D22-14490-00000FA9EEBBA143.jpg 221B0E3E-CC5B-4000-8045-BABB9AD11C8C-14490-00000FA9E97321B5.jpg SHE IS ABOUT TO EXPLODE!!! These were taken after she had her bath/potty time.

    247F5E68-1A3B-449D-82B1-82EDFC7C06A6-14490-00000FA9E25F5824.jpg 5D9D82AD-86EB-4263-9BA9-04323E6EBE93-14490-00000FA9D5BCC097.jpg 200014D4-6581-4855-BE7A-C85C91A9B7D7-14490-00000FA9CCC47866.jpg Sorry I didnt have a tape measure available so I used the chapstick as a measurement reference.

    Now other warning signs I am concerned about as she is very very very very very very very very very (you get the point yes?) lazy. She barely moves even to eat anymore. Also she hasnt been going regularly and will only go when bathed now which I guess isnt too unusual but still...what would she do if I was on vacation?

    Now I have been told that she is probably just developing eggs and to wait a while before falling apart at the seams but I dont feel anything in her stomach. No lumps, bumps, or hard masses. And she has been fat for 2-3 months now...how long do eggs take to develop?

    Any other opinions besides she is egg-bound?
     
  2. TigerIvy

    TigerIvy Elite Member

    Well she could be developing eggs, you can try cutting back on her insects somewhat but her tail doesn't appear obese and I'm not seeing 2 or 3 or 8 beards on her at all. The main causes of egg binding are malnutrition, improper heat temps and lack of calcium. Other then an Xray I am not sure if there is a way to tell if they are egg bound. Does Harley bask at all? Just curious. I know she lovers her super worms but you could try laying off of them for a few days and see if you can entice her into eating salad (or something other then superworms anyhow).
     
  3. Runningmom

    Runningmom Elite Member

    Yeah that is a good size Beardie there. I love the look she is giving when you had the Chapstick on her...like what are you doing? Lol
     
  4. Ieasa

    Ieasa Elite Member

    That is big girl. Sorry I have no insight. I hope you able to figure it out soon.
     
  5. MelissaB

    MelissaB Well-Known Member

    For a minute there I thought you were talking about my Drago. She has all but stopped eating salad, will eat whatever greens happen to get into her mouth when she is getting to her butterworms that I put in her salad. She also hardly ever poops, and only in the bath. Her current habit is every 5-6 days even though I bathe her more than that trying to get her to go, scares me to death every time because she goes so long with no poop. VERY lazy. Will only move to get butterworms, I have to bring roaches to her on my finger. She stays fairly plump too. I've worried about eggs, but I also see no lumps or bumps and there is absolutely zero digging going on. So basically I just worry every day.
     
  6. TigerIvy

    TigerIvy Elite Member

    LOL you know dragons have the amazing ability of sloth...they lay around all the time and do little to nothing. Some dragons are more active then others. Especially as they grow older. The bug versus salad thing....If you could choose between fillet minon or chuck steak which would you want? Too much protein in an adult dragons is hard on the liver and causes them to be fat. As mean as it sounds - cut back on the bugs and offer more salad. 5 or 6 butter worms a day is honestly too much...Unless that dragon is gravid, post gravid, or growing. 2 is enough each day. And make them work for it seriously - it won't kill them.

    Believe me if they get hungry enough they will eat salad. In a way they have the mentality of a cat. You have to make them thing its their idea.

    All of my adults lay around their tank except to move from hot to cold side or get food unless I take them outside. Then they want to be everywhere. lol. Meanbutt goes around eating clover, Spaz goes ninja through the grass and Newb just zooms around doing Leroy Jenkins moves all over the place. Going outside is good! Going outside is fun! Going outside is healthy!!
     
  7. MelissaB

    MelissaB Well-Known Member

    I haven't let Drago loose outside yet. We do have our yard treated and that scares me.

    I would say I give her 3-4 butters a day when I have them, skipping a day occasionally. I went a month without butters the last time i ran out. So it's not like they are truly her staple bug. The roaches would be the staple. I put one butter where she can see it to get her moving, then one closer to her salad dish to lure her, then one or two buried in the salad.

    Off to the bath again, as this is day 6 with no poo. Again. The vet is a little perplexed about that issue too, but he leans toward not getting too worried about it as long as she doesn't seem distressed. It does seem like she struggles a little bit to go though. Or maybe I just think that because I'm already worried.

    Is having a female a guarantee that I will someday get eggs?
     
  8. TigerIvy

    TigerIvy Elite Member

    Melissa 1 adult roach a day is honestly enough. It sounds like there isn't enough fiber in Drago's diet honestly. If she will eat the roaches, try gut loading them with something higher in fiber (suggestion Bran Flakes) and possibly making sure she is getting enough water to drink. Then the obvious make sure her basking temps are high enough. If you want something faster, take some canned pumpkin (not pumkin pie mix - just pumpkin) and make her eat some. a CC or two is plenty. cranberry or cherries will work too. A little watermelon will work too

    Oh the outside thing with a treated lawn? Just make a short wooden box out of 1x10 with a plywood bottom, drill quarter in holes on the corners (and middle if its really big) glue 1/4 inch pvc in (an 8 foot piece at lowes is like 2 bucks) , cover with hardware wire (like 15 bucks) and you can use alot of things to tie it on...zip ties, you can use that stuff you use to tie tomato plants up, heck pipe cleaners work honest. Put a piece over the top to finish, it doesn't need to be really tight either. Just don't forget to make a way to get Drago in and out (I forgot to lmao)

    Then just put some organic type potting soil in and plant some stuff. I just got some wheat grass, lemon grass, stuff like that put in there and keep it watered for a week or 2 and soon enough you will have a place for Dragon to go outside safely!

    And I have never seen a female that doesn't lay eggs, but I am sure somewhere out there someone has one. It doesn't seem to matter if they have been around a male or not.
     
  9. cassicat4

    cassicat4 Subscribed User Premium Member

    Often, gravid females become a bit more active/restless rather than lazy. They'll run around looking for a suitable place to lay eggs, and this is usually followed up with scratching/digging behavior.

    For egg-binding, watch for lethargy, a "depressed" appearance, and anorexia. Even when a dragon is about to lay, she'll often go off food, but should still be active and alert. A lethargic, depressed, anorexic dragon can be a sign that something is wrong, and a vet visit is warranted.

    Aside from being gravid, another possibility is that she's just a healthy eater. I agree with TigerIvy in that she doesn't look obese. It could also be partly due to her bathroom habits. How often do you bathe her? My male is the exact same way, very irregular, and will only go when bathed (and when he feels like it). However, when he holds out too long, he takes on a bloated, lethargic appearance as well, and that's when I know he's going to spend all day in the bath if he has to!
     
  10. TigerIvy

    TigerIvy Elite Member

    What I like to do to help them poo is I take them outside in the kiddie pool on a nice hot day and put some warm water in the pool and let them play around in there. Never fails to make them poo. Often times they will reach optimal basking temp but thats not a bad thing for a short period of time.
     
  11. MelissaB

    MelissaB Well-Known Member

    I haven't done the kiddie pool yet. Plan to. It's rained here the last 8 days out of 12 anyway. Ugh.

    I've never force fed her before but it might be time for pumpkin. She does not drink, ever. Water on her veggies, when she eats a bite or two, is all she directly ingests. Soaks keep her hydrated. She won't drink off her nose. Won't lap at water coming off my fingers or dripping down side of tub. Won't drink out of a dropper. I've got a sweetly dumb dragon I'm afraid.

    She's now sitting in the bath going on half an hour, nothing. Sitting like a stone. I've refilled it twice with warm water. My puppy is crated and whining. Can't leave her unsupervised so I had to crate her while I watch bath time. My boys are sword fighting and I just heard something large hit the floor. I'm afraid to ask. Long story short, I really can't be sitting in this bathroom every other day for this amount of time, so something has to change.
     
  12. murrindindi

    murrindindi Elite Member

    Hi, the gestation period lasts around 4 to 6 weeks so if she`s been "heavy" for 3 months it doesn't sound like she`s gravid?
    I think the coolest ambient temps are a little too warm (I would go 21 to 24c (72 to 75f). You mention the basking site surface temps range between 90 to 115f (that`s fine) what`s the ambient immediately around the basking area (it`s not normally too important, but just out of curiosity)?
    l actually don`t think she`s overweight at all. How often do you take her out for some exercise (not necessarily outside your house), and what`s the temp of the bath water?
     
  13. murrindindi

    murrindindi Elite Member

    Hi, unless the dragon drinks the bath water soaking does nothing to keep them hydrated. What`s the temp of the water you bath the lizard in?
     
  14. MelissaB

    MelissaB Well-Known Member

    I've read many sources that say dragons soak water in through their vent. And any time we've done frequent baths in the past (shedding or trying to get a bowel movement), when she did go the urate portion was huge and a puddle of water came out around it too. So I took that to mean she really was very hydrated. I've had her since December and I've never once seen her drink water from any source. Not once. The water I bathe her in is what I would call very warm but not hot.
     
  15. Merlin

    Merlin Administrator Staff Member Premium Member

    That's a myth. One of those stories which are outdated and just keep getting rehashed over and over again.
    Even if a little water did manage to go into the vent, it would be miniscule and not enough to matter.
     
  16. MelissaB

    MelissaB Well-Known Member

    So she has stayed hydrated from the end of December until now on virtually no water intake? When she was eating her salad, which was always a bit wet, I could understand it. But she almost completely quit eating salad close to two months ago and still passes a good amount of urate when she goes. Can I read the source that says they do not soak through their vent? I'm not disputing it, I'm new to reptiles and you aren't, but every single thing I've come across says that they do. It's hard to know what's true and what isn't if the books I buy and articles I read all say the same thing. Makes it very hard to trust anything you read if something as basic as hydration is all wrong.
     
  17. MelissaB

    MelissaB Well-Known Member

    Do I need to force feed her water through a dropper since she is refusing salad?
     
  18. murrindindi

    murrindindi Elite Member


    Hi again, I would make sure the temp of the bathing water is around 32c (90f), their "activity" core temps are a little above that but it might help if she hasn't defaecated in a few days (exercise is excellent in that respect, too (including "swimming"), obviously not in too deep water!
     
  19. MelissaB

    MelissaB Well-Known Member


    She actually has not gone in 6 days. She was in her very warm bath for over half an hour earlier and I drained the water to replace with warm water twice. Nothing. She is eating about 7 or 8 roaches and no salad every day, sometimes a few butterworms too. S things are going in, but probably not enough fiber, as TigerIvy said, because she's eating no greens these days. This not going for 5 or 6 days has been going on for a while, a couple months at least. She went once a day when she was growing and eating a LOT. Then as she eats less, she started going to the bathroom less. First she would go three days, then five. Now it's up to 6 and sometimes seven. I don't like this at all.
     
  20. murrindindi

    murrindindi Elite Member

    Force feeding is an absolute last resort, no doubt the lizard is getting enough from her food (insects), even without there being too much veg eaten just now.
     

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