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Importation Ban?

Discussion in 'General' started by Microscope Jockey, Oct 9, 2004.

?

Would you support a ban on the import of green iguanas?

  1. Yes, whole-heartedly!

    38 vote(s)
    57.6%
  2. No, not fair!

    6 vote(s)
    9.1%
  3. Maybe...

    11 vote(s)
    16.7%
  4. Not sure right now...

    8 vote(s)
    12.1%
  5. Other (please specify)

    3 vote(s)
    4.5%
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  1. Microscope Jockey

    Microscope Jockey Elite Member

    How would you feel about a ban on the importation of Green Iguanas into the United States, Canada, and Europe?
     
  2. Lyn

    Lyn Elite Member

    I picked other

    Until more learning howto care for these animals is figured out, I would put a temporary ban on them...when demand overwhelms supply, (which is not likely to happen) then lift the ban...a permanent ban? I dont think so....my thoughts....Lyn
     
  3. Toadie78

    Toadie78 Elite Member

    Lyn Green Iguanas have been imported for a long time and thier care is pretty much well documented so i dunno if thats really a valid excuse. I just have a question do Greens breed in captivity and if so how well? If it can be bred in captivity then i say ban them and have captive bred only.
     
  4. MoLdYpOtAtOe

    MoLdYpOtAtOe Elite Member

    There are thousands of large iguanas living in 10-20 gallons, thousands of iguanas dropped of in the street like a dog or cat, thousands being abused, mistreated, killed, abandoned, thrown out to iguana farms to be tortured to death, bred just for food in iguana farms, un caring and unnowledged people leaving there iguana to suffer in a small cage when diseased, and fed proteins which they should not have. The majority of these iguanas are captive bred.

    I would ban the importing of iguanas every where possible and have people take quizzes in a very intelligent zoo, top rated herpitoligist, online wild life keeps that are full of the best herpitoligists and zoo keepers. Another thing I think would help is a pic of the person presenting the pic of the cage they plan on having for the iguanas whole life, and what they plan on feeding... Soon I feel many many more herps are going to be the same as iguanas. In abuse wise. For example bearded dragons. As well as many other herps due to they're ever growing popularity.
     
  5. Bitis Gabonica

    Bitis Gabonica Elite Member

    I think there needs to be more education, about herps in general - they are a very misunderstood animal and too many people believe misconceptions and myths about them. Green igs are all too much abandoned or neglected, mainly due to their size, but also so are herps like burmese pythons. I think there needs to perhaps be a temp ban as Lyn suggested, but I also don't think that people should readily breed igs in captivity, for the main reason that it doesnt matter where the igs come from, too many are mistreated, and it is mainly due to inexperience and lack of knowledge.
     
  6. Jay DeMore

    Jay DeMore Elite Member

    I went with other; I think education is key, price is the other. If they adopted a size limit, hypothetically: no Iguana under 18" stl may be sold. This would drive the price up and hopefully lessen the "disposable pet" tag that Ig's seem to have gotten.
     
  7. MoLdYpOtAtOe

    MoLdYpOtAtOe Elite Member

    I would just make it really difficult for the buyer. Just to make sure they are dedicated.
     
  8. Mark

    Mark Elite Member

    This is not the place for governmental regulation. It is up to us as keepers and such to educate places like pet stores and make information readily available to those thinking about keeping one. I commend one of the big box pet stores (I can't remember which it is but I was in the local branch yesterday) that has accurate care sheets for all the animals it has in house plus ones that it does not and the manager / reptile girl siad that the store no longer would carry igs because of the population problems.

    Even now most books published and sold at pet stores are full of inaccurate information. In all the books I have flipped through only two (Kaplin's and Hatfield's) are good enough to to use. Both appear cost prohibitive to a new keeper. For Dummies needs to come out with a version of MK's book that is abridged like there other desk references but have a list of good web resources.

    The fact that iguanas are farmed for food is wholly irrelevant to this argument. Iguanas have been a food source longer than they have been even considered to be pets. Recognize this, don?t try to ban it, get used to it.

    The only time that I would consider backing a ban on something is when it poses an outright danger to humans which don't really have a choice of being around it (eg hot snakes, big cats) or causes major problems when it gets loose (eg pampas grass, zebra muscles). Even then I have a hard time supporting one.
     
  9. steveig2

    steveig2 Elite Member

    ban

    By all means they should be banned there are enuf captive greens in the world as pets that could be bred to feed the want for these magnificent animals. I would rather see healthy captive igs breed and produce healthy babies, I think if this happened over a few dozen years you would see less problems with the newborns certainly might even breed out the fear factor that is hardwired in. I think this should be the same for all "difficult" reptiles or any exotic for that matter. Perhaps in a few 100 years Iguanas might even reach domesticated status, of course i realise that brings up a whole new set of issues but it is an interesting topic for discussion. :)
     
  10. MoLdYpOtAtOe

    MoLdYpOtAtOe Elite Member

    I'm just saying, some people sell they're iguanas to a food farm. To get rid of them as they cannot do it... Most iguana farms that are for food are made up of hideous acts. I was not even counting them as why theys should be banned. Just stateing a fact. It should be a government regulation to have checks on every one's iguanas. They should be required to have licenses for owning a iguana, be quizzed, and have a monthly checkup where they HAVE to bring they're iguana to a knowledgable vet. Or they are fined heavily or arrested. If the country has laws on endangered animals and the aspca protects animals. They should be protecting iguanas.
     
  11. Mark

    Mark Elite Member

    Yes, I agree that there is a problem with ig populations. If more people knew that theses were as hard to take care of and lived upwards of 15 years with proper care there would be a lot less of a problem. If examples of proper cages and diets were provided at the stores -- even just pics -- a lot of people wound not get a little $15 lizard.

    If many laws were implemented, licenses were issued, house checks were done a whole nother layer of governmental beuracracy would be introduced and all the costs along with it. They arn't even willing to do this with dogs, cats, and horses. The only reason you see stories about ASPCA on animal planet is individuals have called in and reported abuse and iguanas are already covered under the same laws -- just keeping an iguana in poor conditions without neighbors knowing it is easier than a dog or horse.

    I have never heard of pets being sold to farms as food as you would have to ship the lizard to central America and too many things stand in the way of that.
     
  12. Microscope Jockey

    Microscope Jockey Elite Member

    Excuse me but I need to clarify: the original objective of this poll is to generate discussion regarding iguanas imported for the pet trade NOT those utilized for consumption as food. While that is an interesting topic for discussion it is not relevent to the scope of this particular webpage.
     
  13. Mark

    Mark Elite Member

    If we were to pay for it, not people without iguanas as pets, it would be self regulation not a law or a ban. With that there would be no obligation to participate and it would fall apart and be useless.

    The iguana problem will have to be solved through education and the easiest way to do this is provide answers to those who come to a board like this. After this I can only see starting at the pet store level as they are the easiest to find.

    The only way I can justify any legislation on to this problem is to require people selling an animal (pet stores and breeders) to provide an accurate published care sheet. This care sheet should include things like how much basic housing will cost, diet, habitat requirements, and a list of sources to reference for further information. This then sparks the question of who deems the information accurate and how much information is to be included.
     
  14. steveig2

    steveig2 Elite Member

    trouble with most pet stores is they could care less about proper care of the animals they are in it to make a buck and usually bank on that animal dying so you run right back to get another. while this does not include all pet stores the majority it does. what we need more of is places that exclusively deal with reptiles of course to run such a place would probably not be very cost efficent as to the upkeep of healthy reptiles would exceed the cost of keeping the place open. but then again i could be wrong
     
  15. Merlin

    Merlin Administrator Staff Member Premium Member

    I would have to vote no. All this would do is to create a black market. The iguanas would still come in. They cannot stop the flow of illegal drugs, stolen objects of art or any other sort of contraband how would they stop the importation of a tiny green lizard? It is well documented how many animals that are currently prohibited, (some species of small birds for example) are still smuggled in concealed in horrendous conditions and how many of them die in the process.

    This would still result in any keeper aquiring them who wanted them. It would also prohibit a sick animal from being by seen by a vet as well as limit availability of quality care and exchange of info on that care.

    If anything was legislated I would like the dealers of shops being required to actually know how to house and care for the animals they sell and to truthfully relay that information to the potential customer. Telling a customer that all you need to house a lizard that will reach 6 ft long and several pounds is a 10 gallon tank and a heat rock would be stopped. Failure to do so would result in their losing their license and closing the shop.

    The situation with green iguanas is a disgrace. But I also beleive the answer is education. If you KNOW before hand that the proper housing of these animals is going to far and exceed the purchase price and this animal may well grow up to be able to do you or your family physical damage, you may just very well have second thoughts.
     
  16. steveig2

    steveig2 Elite Member

    that is true i never thought about that Merlin lots of illegal animals are already smuggled in to the U.S. i guess untill a safe alternative is reached education will have to be the staple.
     
  17. Microscope Jockey

    Microscope Jockey Elite Member

    Ok let me clarify again: the gist of the original poll question was banning importation not ownership or captive breeding of animals already in the country.
     
  18. Mark

    Mark Elite Member

    Thank you Merlin, not exactly the one I expected to stand beside me on this but hey you'r one of the best to be there.

    Microscope Jockey, regardless of how far you clarify this I will stand by the fact that this is not the role government should take.

    The United States government is already too inflated and invasive as it is. We are a lot better than most of the world and all of Europe but our level of governance is boarder line unacceptable. A non threatening small lizard should not be included to the list of things that are controlled. With the common green iguana the wild caught problem is all but eliminated so the ecological impact is nil.

    Where my argument is purely political where as Merlin raises a great economic point. The demand is there and will remain as the "coolness factor" is so high when someone sees a healthy larger adult, like my Bob or Merlin's Zok.

    Everyone, I think you for remaining adults and not yelling at everyone with a different view -- this is why I keep returning here.

    Mark
     
  19. Microscope Jockey

    Microscope Jockey Elite Member

    Pardon me but the clarifications were not aimed at specific individuals, nor were they intended to convey my opinion, nor do I appreciate insinuation that the clarifications were either of the aforementioned. They were intended to dissuade confusion and keep the thread on topic. I chose to post this poll because it would stimulate some lively debate, which is definately a positive thing for iguanas.
     
  20. CodyW

    CodyW Elite Member

    In my opinion the import of almost all animals should be banned.

    Most are probably wild caught, which is reason enough for me. Plus there is already a steady supply of CB igs.
     
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