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Hyaluronic Acid For Swollen Gums?

Discussion in 'Water Dragons' started by zard72, Jan 24, 2016.

  1. zard72

    zard72 Well-Known Member

    Hello!

    My cwd has an inflammation in his gum, so I took him to a vet. He said that everything is fine and gave me some antibiotics for him, but he also told me to check whether
    it is safe to give a cwd Gengigel. The vet mainly sees cats and it is safe for them, but I couldn't find anything about it online. Gengigel is composed of Hyaluronic acid, Xylitol (a sugar alcohol used as a sweetener.), and excipients (natural or synthetic substances formulated alongside the active ingredient of a medication). Is it safe to use on him?
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  2. murrindindi

    murrindindi Elite Member

    Hi, I can`t find anything about using it on reptiles but I can find out for you, it would be tomorrow (monday) before I can get back with an answer.
    When you say swollen gums, did the vet mention stomatitis (mouthrot), if yes, was a swab taken, and which antibiotic is being administered?
    Is it possible to get a closeup photo of the dragon`s mouth (not necessarily inside)?
     
  3. zard72

    zard72 Well-Known Member

    The vet did not mention mouth rot. I cant get a picture of the inside of his mouth, but the outside looks completely normal. I'm sorry, but I don't know the name of the antibiotic. If you don't mind me asking, how will you find out? Thank you so much for your help!
     
  4. murrindindi

    murrindindi Elite Member

    How are you giving the lizard the antibiotics, the name should be on the packaging?
    A photo of the animal`s head will do, no need to have the mouth open, I just want to see the lips.
    I will ask my very experienced exotics vet whether she thinks Gengigel is o.k.
     
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  5. zard72

    zard72 Well-Known Member

    The antibiotic came in a syringe. My mother took him to the vet and she says she thinks he gave us enrofloxacin (Baytril). Can you also please ask if the Xylitol in the gengigel is ok for him because I read that it is toxic for dogs?


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  6. zard72

    zard72 Well-Known Member

    There is just a small swollen, red area in his mouth, so I don't think its mouth rot. Is it possible that he hurt himself while eating? What do you think it is? He is completely healthy otherwise.
     
  7. murrindindi

    murrindindi Elite Member

    I can`t see any obvious signs of damage on the outside of the mouth but that doesn`t mean there isn`t any, even if only slight.
    I`m waiting for a phone call from my vet, it might even be tomorrow (Tuesday) before she gets back to me and obviously I`ll keep you informed.
    I can tell you that it would be perfectly safe to dab the area with a diluted iodine solution@ 10 (ten) parts water to 1 (one) part iodine, but that means you`ll need to open the dragons mouth, if I gave you some advise on how to do that could you?
    Vets often initially prescribe Baytril. it can be very effective, did your vet say how many more doses he would administer, and did he take a swab (or a photo of the inside of the mouth)?
    By the way, I`m in the U.K and around 5 or 6 hours ahead of you if you`re in America so at times I may not be able to answer immediately.
    Can you show a few photos of the whole enclosure and give details of the conditions?
     
  8. zard72

    zard72 Well-Known Member

    I actually took him to the vet last week because he was bleeding from a cut in his mouth. The vet cleaned the cut and told me to give him 5 days of antibiotics (0.1ml per day) and to rinse with saline and swab with 1% iodine twice daily. The cut has healed but the inflammation is still there, so I took him to the vet again and he told me to give him another 6 days of antibiotics.
    I'm actually in Saudi so the time difference should be smaller.
     
  9. zard72

    zard72 Well-Known Member

    Am I holding his mouth correctly?
     

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  10. murrindindi

    murrindindi Elite Member

    Yes, that`s the way to open the mouth, you need to put the diluted iodine on a cotton bud/similar and very gently dab the area, do that once per day. Is the infection near the front of the mouth?
    Are you around 3 hours ahead of me (it`s almost 11 p.m here in the U.K)?
    Do you think when you apply the iodine you could get a photo of inside the mouth so I can see more clearly (open a bit wider)?
    Can you also put a few photos up of the whole enclosure?
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2016
  11. zard72

    zard72 Well-Known Member

    The temperature used to be 26.5C. It is supposed to be at least 29C so I added another powersun 160 watt uva/uvb/heat lamp, so hopefully that will warm it up enough. He wont get too much uv will he? The lamps are 25inches from the bottom of the tank, but he basks on those leaves a lot.
    The humidity is at 60%

    I've also been having a problem with the paper towel at the bottom of the tank. It gets damp from the humidifier, which makes it cold. The right side of the tank is only a bit damp, but the part next to th ehose gets pretty wet and cold.
    I tried putting a lot of paper towel, but it still gets really wet. I was thinking about putting in a heat pad, but I read that they can burn lizards or catch fire, and that you shouldn't use them on glass tanks. I'm not so sure about using it under wet paper towel anyway, even if there is glass between them.
    I'm hoping that the warmer tank temp. will be enough to offset the wetness, but in case it doesn't do you have any advice?

    And again Thank you very much for helping!!
     

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  12. zard72

    zard72 Well-Known Member

    Sorry, but I forgot, I read somewhere that having too much light/ too much uvb can damage a lizard's eyesight. Is this true?
     
  13. murrindindi

    murrindindi Elite Member

    Thanks for the photos and you`re welcome to the advise!
    If this is the permanent enclosure it`s far too sparce, they are semi arborial as well as semi aquatic animals. Any water must be heated to approx. 27c.
    How big is the tank (length, width and height)? I would also like to know the usual ambient (air) temps in the room (both day and night) and what type of hygrometer you`re using, and lastly, exactly how many cm from the face of the Powersun to the closest surface of the dragon?
     
  14. zard72

    zard72 Well-Known Member

    length: 59 inches width: 23.5 height: 39inches

    The air temp. is 23C day and night

    I use an electric hygrometer that i bought at an electronics store. I tested it using the salt test, so I know its accurate.

    How do I keep the water that warm? I have a lamp aimed right at the water, but its not enough. I asked someone at a pet store and she told me as long as its not cold its ok.

    Ok. If I measure straight down from the lamp to the height of the leaves its 8 inches, if I measure diagonally to where he actually is its 11 inches (because the leaves aren't directly under the lamps so he can't touch them burn himself)

    Since I installed another lamp, the new temp. at the bottom of the tank is 29C, and on the leaves is 37C. When the humidifier is on the temp. at the bottom of the tank drops to 28C when the humidifier comes on (every 20min) Are the temps alright?
    Also, the lamp says that it shouldn't be operated at temps higher than 40C. I cant measure the temps right where the lights are, but if the temp on the leaves is 37C, then its probably a few degrees higher. Also, the thermometer might not be 100% accurate, so it might even be more than a few degrees higher. Is this dangerous? Should I move the lights farther apart?

    I know his tank is a bit sparse. I used to have plastic rocks and a huge tree branch that I painted over with aquarium safe varnish, but no matter how much I cleaned them (even with f10scxd disinfectant, which should kill bacteria) black mildew kept growing on them, and after a few days I couldn't even scrub the mildew off. There was also a slimy film on them. I was worried it would make him sick, and it was bad for me too because I'm severely allergic to mold.
    The thing is, the plastic leaves I have in there now are perfectly fine. No mildew or slime. What should I do?
     
  15. murrindindi

    murrindindi Elite Member

    I think there are some modifications to be made asap. The distance from the surface of the MVB to the closest surface of the animal MUST be at least 30cm.
    I don`t understand why you need two 160w heat bulbs when the room temps are 23c, does the enclosure have a completely sealed top?
    You basically need to know just 2 temps; the lowest ambient @ approx. 24c, then the surface of the basking object @ approx. 35c.
    Those plastic leaves are of no use as a basking site because they won`t hold the heat, you need something solid (a wooden shelf, slate/ceramic tiles, etc).
    It`s urgent that you get a digital "Temp-gun" to measure the surface temps,
    here`s a link to an example...
    Digital Infrared Temperature Temp Gun Thermometer Non-Contact IR Laser Point | eBay
     
  16. murrindindi

    murrindindi Elite Member

    I would have run out of time, more suggestions...
    You need a water container large enough to install an aquarium heater (try 50w) having the water warm will also help keep the humidity up (around 70%).
    Can you remove the cardboard temporarily so I can see the whole of the inside of the enclosure?
    Did you manage to get another photo of the inside of the mouth?
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2016
  17. zard72

    zard72 Well-Known Member

    The enclosure ha a mesh top, but I cover most of it with a towel to keep the heat and humidity in.

    Why does he need to be 30cm away from the mvb? Because of the uv or because of the light? He has been in this tank for 3 years and spends a lot of time on the leaves near the light. Actually, 30cm=11.8 inches. If I measure diagonally from the leaves to the lamps it is 11 inches. So do I only need to move them down a little? Or do I need to measure straight down? Because the leaves aren't straight under the lamps, they are to the side.

    I will get a ceramic tile, but wouldn't it get mildew on it like the branch?

    Why do you need another pic of his mouth? I posted the best one we could get.

    You can see the whole enclosure in this picture.

    Thanks!
     

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  18. zard72

    zard72 Well-Known Member

    Also, I read about aquarium heaters causing dragons to get burned or electrocuted so I'm scared to use one.
     
  19. zard72

    zard72 Well-Known Member

    Can he get too much uv from having two powersuns? Should I replace one with a heat lamp instead? The calcium I give him has 22907 IU of D3 per kg

    Have you gotten hold of the vet yet?
     
  20. murrindindi

    murrindindi Elite Member

    Now it`s clear why you need so much wattage. The towel is virtually useless, it will still allow much heat and humidity to escape, you need to cover the whole top as completely as possible, you can use kitchen foil temporarily. If you do that obviously the temps and humidity will rise so you`ll need to get accurate measurements. You shouldn`t need another heat lamp, one 160w should be sufficient (you can add supplementary lighting in the form of a fluorescent tube if needed).
    The Powersun is quite likely to cause a serious burn if it`s closer than the recommended distance which is 30cm as I`ve mentioned.
    I wanted to try and see if there were signs of infection in other places in the mouth so another photo might help.
    Aquarium heaters are perfectly safe, you can even buy them with a protective guard already fitted.
    From what you`ve described so far I think the conditions are unsuitable at this time but it`s quite easy to fix the main problems (covering the screen and providing a suitable basking site together with getting the surface temps and humidity in place).
    No, the vet hasn`t got back to me yet, but the diluted iodine is as effective as anything else (together with the antibiotic medication).
     

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