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help if u can

Discussion in 'Boas *General*' started by sprkn1, Nov 11, 2007.

?

Do you regularly handle your A,E,M, TB

Poll closed Nov 22, 2007.
  1. no

    33.3%
  2. yes

    66.7%
Multiple votes are allowed.
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  1. sprkn1

    sprkn1 Active Member

    Has anyone ever noticed their amazon tree boa dwell on the ground moreso when they are full and after a meal. I recieved my amazon tree boa just a few ago, and after its first meal (with me), i noticed it tends to stay on the ground. My set up is a 60 quart rubbermaid on its short side. I have an undertank heater with a wet shirt for substrate and I have cups of water on the cage floor to increase humidity and it stays around 80 - 90 % in humidity, and bottom floor temp of around 84' F and canopy temp of 80' F. I also use a radiant heater in the room which helps me raise or lower the temp's of all the over all enclosures by up to 6'. I know i have alot of fluctuations in my temps and humidity, but it is a theory i am checking up on, about how tree boas are given less credit than deserved when talking about its ability to stand a fluctuating climate (temps and humidity). Do you think these fluctuations are too extreme? This is my first arboreal snake, and my first boid in general. Any input is appreciated, thanks for you time. btw i know i maybe worrying about nothing, but i have to since my experience with this species is relatively new despite the countless sleepless nights of research and reading. I have read about them spending some time on the ground, but it seems like mine is on the ground all the time. Should i be worried or no?
     
  2. BlackJack

    BlackJack Subscribed User Premium Member

    Firstly: welcome to HC!! :)
    Secondly: yes, you should be concerned.
    I would say he's probably spending more time on the ground because it's warmer there. Especially after eating it is VERY important that the snake is warm enough to digest quickly. Otherwise the food item will rot in his gut and become toxic -- causing regurgitation or vomiting.
    I would recommend installing a heat panel on the ceiling of the enclosure or a Ceramic Heat Emitter (covered with a protective cage)
    Also remove the wet shirt! Wet fabric can breed bacteria VERY VERY quickly.
    We use paper towel substrate in our Green Tree Python terrariums and have put in live plants which really help with the humidity (and look nice.) Our GTPs roam the floor at night, but do not stay grounded there for long periods.
    Our terrariums are heated from above, so the warmest areas are on the perches. They always stay perched and close to the heat source while digesting.
    Here's a pic of our 4 green tree python terrariums. If you look carefully at the ceilings you can see the heat panels. (That is our only heat source and it works beautifully. Also the snakes can't burn themselves on it.) :

    [​IMG]

    Amazon Tree Boas are known to be quite sensitive and if the temperatures aren't adequate they can develop a chronic vomiting syndrome. If I were you, I would try to get more stable conditions in your terrarium. It is true that in the wild, snakes can be very adaptable, but there is nothing "natural" about keeping one in a terrarium: so it is up to us, as keepers to guarantee the best living conditions possible.
    I hope that helps. :)
    Good luck with your ATB. Post pics if you can!

    Oh, as far as handling: I don't have an ATB, but we do not often handle our GTPs. We take them out to weigh them after they defecate, or if we have to do some major cleaning on the terrarium. But we do NOT take them out for interaction/show/handling. We try to see them in the same way as tropical fish: looks only! I've heard the same things about ATBs -- they are more easily stressed than other boids. (Also have you seen pics of Corallus caninus fangs?!) At least my GTPs have smaller teeth!
    For handling I have my wonderful ball python, who loves to come out and cruise the living room!
     
  3. sprkn1

    sprkn1 Active Member

    hi andrea, thank you for replying and your help.

    I took the shirt out and put in newspaper. Also about the heat, i have a radiant heat panel, that keeps the canopy at 81 F. And I also took out the Under Tank Heater, I was opting to use a ceramic heat bulb, but also read from other amazon tree boa keepers its a poor choice because of the ammies thermosensitivity and its skittish strikes at almost all close heat sources. I have noticed my ammie striking at the floor, right on the Under Tank Heater, so it does seem to be true. Also just curious (meaning i want to use it also, lol) what kind of plants do you have in your enclosures, they really make it look nice and "natural". BTW i've seen your pictures of your gtps, they are too beautiful, and really nice enclosure too, is that custom built?
     

    Attached Files:

  4. BlackJack

    BlackJack Subscribed User Premium Member

    Thanks for the compliments on our GTPs and terrarium. :) We built them ourselves and are very pleased with how they've worked out. Here's a link to my husband's building documentation. It's in German, but you can get some idea from the pics. (One of these days I'll get around to translating it into English)
    http://www.schlangenforum.ch/wbb2/thread.php?threadid=15921&sid=&hilight=&hilightuser=2030

    The radiant heat panels are fantastic. I prefer them to any other heat source.

    The plants we use are:
    Philodendron scandens
    Scindapsus pictus
    Chamaedorea elegans

    PS -- great pics. Your ATB is a beauty. :D
    In the second pic: That's quite a big rat/mouse he's eating. Is it perhaps a bit too big? All the things I've read about ATBs and ETBs say smaller prey is better, as they tend to regurge if the prey item is too big. They seem to be more sensitive to this than other arboreal boids.
     
  5. sprkn1

    sprkn1 Active Member

    The designs you and your husband came up with seems short of ingenius, really like the simplicity of how it looks like the cage comes together. LoL then again I do work in construction and do know sometimes its a lot harder than it looks. Well im trying to go about with translating it using some sort of web tool. When you do translate it lol pm me yea?. As for the size of the mouse, it was a mistake on my part and realized it a little to late to really grab the mouse without stressing the snake much. In truth i was hoping for the snake to snop the biting and trying to swallow when noticing it was large, but it just kept going.*stupid:eek:mistake* but on a good note it has deficated today so that i know is a good sign, plus no regurge. Thanks, for your compliment on my ammie, hopefully in a couple months i can add another one to my collection, and after a year or two move on to either chondros or emeralds.

    Thank you,
     
  6. BlackJack

    BlackJack Subscribed User Premium Member

    I'll try to do the translation soon.
    In the meantime here's an old thread with my prototype. It gives some information, but not as detailed as Martin's.
    http://www.herpcenter.com/enclosures/8273-new-terrarium.html
    The terrarium design was mine and it really does just stick together like a puzzle. We use screws and silicone to seal it. Martin took the design and made big improvements to it. That's why his terrariums are much much nicer. :)
    I'll let you know when the translation is done.
     
  7. sprkn1

    sprkn1 Active Member

    lol, first enclosure heh, from the looks of it you could be a pro at all this. I appreciate ya translating it, im sure many people here can benifit from all this. Again great set up, and i hope i can make one similar to yours. Thanks again for all your help, and time.

    Ramon,
     
  8. Dogboa

    Dogboa Elite Member

    I agree that your ATB probably went to ground seeking a warmer temp. Another possibility is that it was seeking water as well. However, unlike C. caninus, most of the C. hortulanus keepers I know say that they will go to ground.

    I always try to keep a temp gradient that will vary during the day for my caninus, but reach a max of around 83-84 F at the peak. Obviously, the humidity will fluctuate, usually getting lower as the temp increases. Therefore, I use water as a substrate, with heat underneath. I find that using a large, thin layer works better than bowls. More surface area for evaporation. I also provide a night drop for sub-adults and adults. Initially the humidity spikes with the temp drop, but air circulation drops it into the low 70% range. Of course things alter when I'm trying to breed.

    Craig
     
  9. BlackJack

    BlackJack Subscribed User Premium Member

    Ooops, thanks Craig! I was mixing up the Amazon tree boa (Corallus hortulanus) with the German terminology for an Amazonian lowland form of Corallus caninus.
    (Also my husband corrected me about the teeth. If you compare the skulls, there is actually not a big difference between the size of chondro vs corallus teeth.)
    Ramon, I just read that Amazon tree boas actually like to perch with 3 points of their body supported, which is one reason they are more often grounded than other arboreal boids. It is recommended to either used various forked branches or build ledges at various heights. One guy uses cork bark pieces suspended by strong rope or wires (be careful they are not sharp) to make a type of swing.
    As far as temp gradients go: we have more horizontally designed terrariums, that are heated from the top on one side. This gives our chondros a wide range of choices for comfortable resting places, they can go higher or lower and horizontally closer or further from the heat source. This way if they prefer to be high up, they don't have to choose between that or a cooler spot.
     
  10. sprkn1

    sprkn1 Active Member

    Craig, thanks for your input, i have put many "tweaks" in my ammies enclosure. Misting twice a day I have a peak humidity level close to 90% and usual constant of about 80-85%, goes to around high 70's% by morning time. And as for the temp gradient, I took Andrea's advice and situated a heat lamp on the top of the enclosure keeping the canopy at around 84' during the day, and i use a radiant heater to keep my reptile room at a constant 78' at night. And as for the hortulanus actually grounding, I have read a few articles that state once you find the "perfect perch" for your amazon, they will rarely ever go to the ground. I used a couple pvc pipes and actually came up with something i think my ammie likes, considering i havent seen him on the ground at all now! So over all im happy, with the enclosure n i'll post pics as soon as i can. Once again thank you all for your time and consideration.

    Ramon,
     
  11. sprkn1

    sprkn1 Active Member

    heres some pics...

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    After yesterday's remodeling, I havent seen it go on ground. Hopefully with everything it needs up in the "trees" it will not do it anymore. It chills at the same spot you see it above for the most part, i did see him cruising all around his tank last night, but was back up perched at the canopy by morning time when i awoke. Thanks for looking.

    Ramon,
     
  12. BlackJack

    BlackJack Subscribed User Premium Member

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