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Fact Vs Fiction

Discussion in 'Herp Awareness' started by EriksExotics, Feb 18, 2014.

  1. EriksExotics

    EriksExotics Elite Member

    "HSUS claims that 17 people have been killed by large constrictors in the US since 1978.  HSUS further claims that there have been 1,111,768 large constrictors imported since 1977.  Using those figures alone, without factoring in the millions of large constrictors bred in captivity this country since 1978, it makes the risk of death from a large constrictor less than 0.01%.  Less than 1/100th of 1% risk of being killed by a large constrictor snake."

    HR 511 Part Three: Separating Fact From Fiction About Constrictor Snakes | A Legal Perspective
     
  2. MorganLeFay

    MorganLeFay Elite Member

    The wolf is on their 'danerous species' list? Well why don't they ban dogs then? Dogs are even more dangerous as they lack the wolf's natural instinct to run away from people when approached. Dogs attack far more often and cats are even more unpredictable + they both carry potentially lethal diseases that can be easily transmitted to humans. Snakes do not attack unless inappropriately handled by complete morons who know nothing about them, and even then it is most likely to be just a defence nip which probably won't require major medical attention; stitches AT MOST. Plus they don't carry any dangerous bugs except salmonella, but then you should just wash your hands, it doesn't hurt...The kind of attack that ends in death is a feeding response and that is triggered by people who for some reason feel the need to take big constrictors "out for a stroll" after a month of fasting...BAN STUPID, NOT SNAKES!!!!
     
  3. mshrmheadcharge

    mshrmheadcharge Moderator Staff Member Premium Member

    I feel like a lot of people overlook how many snakes are receiving poor care and improper husbandry. I don't believe they should be banned, but I think breeding for profit needs to be slowed down. I also believe fear is a big motivator, which is why fear of being killed by a snake is being used here. Regulations need to be made, it's cruel to the animals that are being improperly cared for. It's not for the humans, it's for the animals. It's selfish to say otherwise.
     
  4. MorganLeFay

    MorganLeFay Elite Member

    I agree, but the same goes for all pet animals. Look how many dogs, cats, rodents and even fish (i.e. bettas) are mistreated because they are a product of a passing whim or fancy... Besides, anywhere where there is financial profit involved, the animals' health and wellbeing is not going to be a priority. Any reptile business or even just an individual person that breeds and sells animals should be oficially registered and strictly supervised by professionals and competent authorities. Any place that doesn't meet proper standards should be closed down, end of story. Maybe then people would realise that animals are not just items that you can collect like pieces of furniture...
     
  5. mshrmheadcharge

    mshrmheadcharge Moderator Staff Member Premium Member

    I absolutely agree!
     
  6. DwarvenChef

    DwarvenChef Elite Member

    We also suffer from religious persecution, most of the planet still fears snakes from biblical writings and beliefs. Not something we are likely going to win over...
     
  7. CryHavoc17

    CryHavoc17 Elite Member

    If you think coming after your pet dogs and cats arent on PETA and HSUS' agenda you aren't paying attention
     
  8. mshrmheadcharge

    mshrmheadcharge Moderator Staff Member Premium Member

    They probably want to euthanize all of them. Kill all of "your animals", you paid for them, so they are yours. Their lives are yours. You own them. Don't let them take what is yours, next they will take our women.
    Oh wait, sorry, got caught up there. Nobody is coming after your pets, they are advocating for them. Plenty of animals are abused, heck, people abuse each other all the time. These animals have rights to a decent life too. You seem to forget these animals do not belong to you, you cannot own another life.
    Put down your pitchfork and help create a more peaceful existence for everyone we share this planet with.
    As I said earlier, I don't think banning certain animals is a solution to this problem. But change has to be made. It's insane to believe otherwise. It's not fair for an animal to be trapped in a tiny cage without any way to fend for themselves, while their "owner" neglects them.
     
  9. Thalatte

    Thalatte Elite Member

    Yes they are trying to be advocates (its a good idea but poor execution) for the animals but the "advocates" need to be regulated as well as the breeders, stores, and owners of the animals.
    You cannot say the PETA is not overzealous and hypocritical to the extreme.
     
  10. JoeyG

    JoeyG Subscribed User Premium Member

    Wow, guess I'm the only one that has belonged to both PETA and the NRA at the same time LOL!

    I think though both are extreme but they have their place, can't let any one group decide everything. As to the snakes and other animals, the same way you all are asking for breeders to be checked out well so should owners. The animals that are the ones that end up on the losing side either way do in fact need advocates. If they didn't there wouldn't be rescues.

    I also believe there should be a special license to own a large constrictor. How many post do we see here with people getting them that know nothing about them. No different then getting a german shepherd, in inexperienced hands the dog can become dangerous just by it's own nature to protect. I don't think we need to ban them (large snakes) but certainly regulate them... IMHO
     
  11. mshrmheadcharge

    mshrmheadcharge Moderator Staff Member Premium Member

    My extreme and your extreme are on different levels, thala, so we won't go into that discussion.
    But no, I don't think they are extreme. Extreme is large scale abuse we inflict on other species daily. Extreme is letting a snake starve to death because you can. Because freedom. Because I can do what I want. Such a vial way of thinking, wouldn't you say?
    An organization, bringing animal abuse to light and advocating for change isn't extreme.
    Walk into a chain pet store. That is what I consider extreme.
     
  12. CryHavoc17

    CryHavoc17 Elite Member

    I find the german Shepard comparison quite apt. A german Shepard who is neglected or abused can pose a significant threat to the safety of both the animals owners and the public should get loose. But I dont find very many people advocating for permits or restrictive legislation of that breed. Is a neglected or abused dog more dangerous then your average constrictor? Id say yes.
     
  13. CryHavoc17

    CryHavoc17 Elite Member

     
  14. CryHavoc17

    CryHavoc17 Elite Member

    And frankly, if you take an honest look at how PETA operates, I think any rational person would have a very hard time coming to the conclusion that they are actually doing much "advocating" for animals.
     
  15. mshrmheadcharge

    mshrmheadcharge Moderator Staff Member Premium Member

    Your family, you say. And that's where I respectfully leave you to your opinions on life and the lives of others.
    Just because you properly care for your family, doesn't mean others have the same decency and respect and morals and ability to love like you and myself and many others. The same can't be said for all of humanity. Those people are the reasons we need laws protecting the lives of others.
    Nothing belongs to you. No life. No human. No animal.
    You are the only one you can claim to own.
     
  16. CryHavoc17

    CryHavoc17 Elite Member

    At the fundamental level I really do agree with this statement. The problem is that I have yet to see any legislative action towards exotics (specifically reptiles) that actually does this in a way that doesnt trample on the hobbyist like myself that puts their heart and soul into caring for these guys.
     
  17. EriksExotics

    EriksExotics Elite Member

    I really hope you aren't talking about PETA
     
  18. EriksExotics

    EriksExotics Elite Member

    PETA is just terrible
     
  19. CryHavoc17

    CryHavoc17 Elite Member

    This is what I really cant wrap my head around. I promise im not trying to pick a fight here (I was earlier and I apologize for that). I really do want to understand your side in this.

    If an animal cannot be "owned" then they are not property. If they are not my property then private property rights do not apply. How can you say that at a fundamental level I have no right whatsoever to keep an animal, be it a dog, cat, python, or bearded dragon? If all that is true, then what exactly am I doing with my dog, iguana, turtle, and snakes? If they're not my animals, well kept and provided for because I enjoy it and love them, then what is their purpose? Why do they exist?

    If someone takes my ability to keep them, because they are not mine, what do you do with the animals? To me this is the million dollar question.
     
  20. EriksExotics

    EriksExotics Elite Member

    My snakes are mine. I keep their cages clean, I feed them, I keep their temperatures where the snakes feel comfortable and without me, they would not survive in this environment. My snakes rely on me and in my opinion, that creates an ownership over the animals. They are my pets and I am their owner and caretaker.
     

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