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"Dear Tooth Fairy...

Discussion in 'Rainbow Boas' started by BlackJack, Apr 19, 2006.

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  1. BlackJack

    BlackJack Subscribed User Premium Member

    ..."I had a miserable time at the vet today: the assistant didn't know how to handle me so I got really nervous and snapped at anything I could get my teeth into. Unfortunately that was my own back! TWICE :mad: (ouch) :(
    Blackjack and ChondroDoc tried to unhook me as gently as possible, but I still managed to pull one of my favourite fangs out of the top of my mouth. Then the awful vet lady put some antiseptic where my tooth was and also made me swallow icky fluids to get rid of the potentially dangerous worms in my gut/lungs.
    Now I'm back home in my freshly sterilized terrarium with just some paper towel as substrate and my hideboxes and water bowl. I'm not happy -- AT ALL!:mad: ... Here's a nice pic of my fang next to a penny, so you can see how sorry I was to lose it.

    [​IMG]

    Cool pic, huh?
    Yours,
    Crais."

    And he thinks HE'S had a bad day! :( He didn't see the bill!
    Yes, our new beautiful stud BRB is not well. He regurged his last two meals.. the first I thought was my fault: rat too big and too soon after bringing him home: the second time I started to really worry. The only other snake I owned that regurged was my BRB Q and that didn't end well...
    Crais finally defecated so I could send his stool in to the lab yesterday. They phoned today. He has an as yet not completely identified nematode infestation. It seems to be a form of strongyloides -- a type of worm that settles in the lungs and can cause serious health problems. So far he's still in really good shape: (no weight loss , no pneumonia) but the lab thought we should start treating IMMEDIATELY, thus the unplanned visit to the vet today.
    She gave him Panacur and we'll have to repeat the treatment once a day for the next 3 days. Then probably have to do it again in a few weeks. The fun part of that: he still has over 100 teeth in his head and seems to be in a mood to risk them all! Oh this should be fun :(
    Hopefully he'll be OK after the treatments. I'm not sure if the regurgitation is related to the parasites or not. He just ate a small rat last Sunday and I was hoping not to stress him out for the next two weeks or so... THAT plan obviously didn't work out. I really hope he doesn't regurge again!
    It's been 5 hours since we brought him back from the vet and he's STILL cruising all over his terrarium. I'm not sure if he's "just" in pain from losing his tooth or from his own bite wounds, or if he's so terribly stressed or if it's a side-effect of the meds or all of the above.
    But it's starting to worry me. I've never seen ANY snake this active EVER! I've covered the glass doors of his tank with cardboard in the hopes of calming him down a bit. Hopefully he'll settle down sometime soon. But with the loud thumps I keep hearing in there, he's obviously still climbing the walls -- literally. Poor thing.

    Keep him in your thoughts. He's a beautiful boy and I really don't want anything to happen to him. I really don't want him to end up like poor Q!
    I already posted this pic in another thread, but thought I'd remind you which one of my beasties this thread is referring to:

    [​IMG]
    Thanks!!
     
  2. Disturbedcries87

    Disturbedcries87 Elite Member

    wow Andrea im sorry to hear god now whats the heck is wrong with that boy?? well i hope all goes well and keep me posted!! please. never seen a snake loose its tooth before from biting. pretty nice sized fang though. well i hope everything goes good and think positive he will be ok after a few trips to the vet.
     
  3. kenman1963

    kenman1963 Moderator

    Best of luck Andrea. what a shame,,,the poor little guy.
     
  4. venus

    venus Founding Member

    Awww poor thing....keep us posted so we know he is doing ok..Good luck with him.
     
  5. BlackJack

    BlackJack Subscribed User Premium Member

    Thanks everyone. I'll keep you posted. Hopefully all will be well in the end.
    It's a wicked-looking tooth, though, don't you think? :)
     
  6. Manhirwen

    Manhirwen Elite Member

    That is quite a tooth he's got there. :D Have you ever been bitten by him or one of your other larger snakes, if so, did it hurt much?
     
  7. Merlin

    Merlin Administrator Staff Member Premium Member

    Andrea what is it about you and male rainbows?
    You have had such terrible luck with them. :(
    Since he is still strong and active hopefully you caught it in time!
    Here hoping the meds will settle things down and he will be right as rain soon.
    Fingers, toes, and eyes crossed!
     
  8. BlackJack

    BlackJack Subscribed User Premium Member

    I'm starting to feel a bit cursed... can you undo it Merlin? ;)
    Thanks for the nice words. Apparently he calmed down sometime in the night. This morning he's curled up in his cool hide. No regurge so far. :)

    Beth: Yes, Crais bit me last Saturday. Not a deep bite but it left 7 tiny holes in my heel. It only hurt for a second, kind of like someone sticking you with a pin.
    I've been bit by lots of snakes... Talyn has bitten me 5 times: the worst one was in the ear and it was a HARD bite: it stayed a bit blue and swollen for a few days. The other ones didn't hurt much at all after the intial hit. Little Aeryn our GTP bit me 3 times in the hands and left a few holes for a week or so.
    Just as a comparison: a paper cut is a zillion times more painful!! And a cat bite is a zillion times more dangerous!
     
  9. rbl

    rbl MacGyver in real life

    Crais, although he has no fingers, takes some really nice photos and has a sense of composition not very common in snakes. Hope the tooth fairy leaves him another coin just for that ;)

    Good luck with him Andrea. Hope the vet can fix him! Keeping a couple of fingers crossed for him!
     
  10. Joe

    Joe Elite Member

    Poor little guy :(

    On the bright side Andrea I would think it would now be unlikly that he will regurge from his meal on Sunday as it has been a while now, fingers are crossed for him :)

    Great photo of the tooth btw :D
     
  11. BlackJack

    BlackJack Subscribed User Premium Member

    Thanks Joe. I'm feeling more confident that he won't regurge this time. If he didn't do it yesterday after all that stress and activity, he'll probably keep this one down.
    The first one he threw up after 5 days and the second after 4 days.(So I'm not sure if it should be called regurgitation or vomiting?) Either way, tonight will be 4 days, so I'm hopeful.
    Also, "little guy" is just a figure of speech: he's measured in at 192cm and 1845 gr.
    The vet was very impressed by how good he looked and he makes a healthy impression. He had a perfect shed which is encouraging too.
    Hopefully the Panacur will do it's work and neither his mouth nor bites will get infected... oh the fun we have!....
     
  12. Joe

    Joe Elite Member

    Interesting, you have suggested something I had not thought possible, and had not heard of before, vomiting.....that poses the question when does regurge become vomit?? One of our boas did that (we assume as we did not actually witness it) last year, we just thought it was regurge and maybe the prey item was too large....she has not done it since....touch wood.

    Not so 'little' guy then lol at least he has a good healthy size so thats promising and as you say a good clean shed is also good.....I think he'll be fine Andrea and he couldn't be i better hands :)

    Aaah yes the fun we have....lol...but its worth it :D
     
  13. Manhirwen

    Manhirwen Elite Member

    Hello,

    Hopefully this will answer that question. It's a link to the article about Vomiting vs. Regurgitation in snakes.
    http://www.herpcenter.com/showthread.php?t=2748

    I hope he starts to feel better for you Andrea.
     
  14. BlackJack

    BlackJack Subscribed User Premium Member

    I've read some contradictory definitions, but essentially it's a question of time. If it happens within hours to a day after eating it is usually referred to as regurgitation. (Generally the food is mostly undigested and has often not even reached the stomach when it is "given back") Anything thrown up later than that is referred to as vomiting. (coming from the stomach and anterior intestine.)
    Although the book I have (Mader's Reptile Medicine and Surgery) contradicts itself on the same page, saying that animals affected with Cryptosporidiosis "commonly regurgitate their meal 2-3 days after eating"

    According to either definition (Beths article or the ones I've read) both Q and Crais were vomiting because the food came up more than 4 days after eating and more than a little pre-digested. (Eeeww.) I should have been more accurate in my first post and written "vomited" instead of "regurged"

    The difference can be helpful when looking for the cause of the problem. Regurgitation is often due to stress or handling immediately before, during or after eating. A snake that has just swallowed a big meal and feels threatened can't move very fast, so will often regurgitate to facilitate its escape.

    Vomiting is the more serious symptom. Causes range from too much food (rots in the stomach before it has a chance to completely digest), low temperatures, handling, stress, parasites, IBD in boids; ingesting bad or poisoned food, bacterial and fungal gastroenterities, obstructions, etc, etc.
    Repeated vomiting can cause serious inflamations, dehydration, acid-base and electrolyte imbalances, so whenever possible the underlying cause should be found and treated sooner rather than too late.

    When I "rescued" Q, he already had a chronic vomiting syndrome, was severely underweight and beyond saving.
    Hopefully with Crais this was a symptom of the parasite infestation and will get better with the Panacur treatments.
    Speaking of which: he had his second dose this evening and although he didn't enjoy it (AT ALL), we got a good look in his mouth and on his body... there are no signs of infection or irritation from the bites (couldn't even see them anymore) nor from the missing tooth: he still has PLENTY in there! :)
    He cruised around for a while after putting him back into his terrarium but he settled down under his hidebox after about 30 minutes.
    I'm guessing he was in a lot of pain yesterday. Poor beast.
     
  15. DarkMagician207

    DarkMagician207 Elite Member

    sorry to hear about the vet visit and what happened. hopefully things will start getting better and he'll be okay with the treatment. best of luck. :)
     
  16. Disturbedcries87

    Disturbedcries87 Elite Member

    so sorry to hear, So he should be better in at least 2weeks or so?? thanks for that information to i didn't know that. hope all goes well fingers crossed really tight!
     
  17. mshrmheadcharge

    mshrmheadcharge Moderator Staff Member Premium Member

    aww, sorry to her about your lil one
     
  18. BlackJack

    BlackJack Subscribed User Premium Member

    Thanks everyone. He hasn't vomited, so that's the biggest relief for me right now. The inside of his mouth looks great, so no signs of mouth rot or infection where he lost the tooth, either. :)
    We have one more dose of Panacur to give him tonight and then we have to wait a few weeks and give him another 4 doses. I still need to do some research on it, because everywhere we look different treatment regimes are recommended.
    Then we'll have his stool checked again and hopefully it will be parasite-free!
     
  19. Joe

    Joe Elite Member

    Thanks for all the info guys, have learnt something new from this thread, which is good.

    Andrea I'm so glad to hear that Crais is donig well and kept down his last meal :) I wish you all the best with him and keep us updated with his progress:)
     
  20. BlackJack

    BlackJack Subscribed User Premium Member

    I'm glad you were able to learn something new from my post Joe! :D
    (I did A LOT of research on the regurge/vomit thing when I was dealing with poor Q)

    The good news is that Crais had the last dose of his first round of treatment on Saturday. No sign of mouth infection from the lost tooth. And he did not vomit.
    In fact he's feisty as heck and amazingly strong... it was all I could do to keep hold of him. (So he doesn't make a sickly impression AT ALL!!)
    I fed him last night and so far so good. Aside from changing the water, there will be no need to disturb him for the next 2 weeks, so hopefully he'll keep this meal down too.
    I have to call the vet for the rest of his test results, but things are looking better!
    Thanks again for the moral support everyone! :)
     
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