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Cricket Death

Discussion in 'Bearded Dragons' started by Hisharleyquinn, May 14, 2018.


  1. 2 different places. None where dead. Sand. Yes I know it's bad currently changing it out. We have a colony of dubia roaches but he's being a picky eater..

    Thank you for being nice❤
     
  2. AmityReptiles

    AmityReptiles Well Established Member

    After you change out the substrate try putting a slice of potatoe or something for them to eat/get water from.
    What you are describing makes me think they are eating something they shouldn't. If it's calcium sand maybe that... not sure.
    Having veggies out for the bugs will also help keep them off your lizard... provided your beardie doesn't eat all the veggies first.
     
    Hisharleyquinn likes this.
  3. murrindindi

    murrindindi Elite Member

    Sand is perfectly acceptable, they live on it in parts of their natural range (I`ve seen them many times). The notion it causes impaction in only true if the conditions don`t fully support them, namely the temps and humidity, and if those are off anything will cause an impaction.... A better option as far as allowing them to dig and burrow, which again is perfectly natural is a topsoil/playsand mix, very firmly packed down and only very slightly moist so it doesn`t collapse.
    Just for the sake of mentioning it, the humidity should range between approx. 30 to 50%+, in some parts of their range it can get over 60% at times. Many people (not referring to you) don`t take into account that the places they retreat to are likely to have a significantly higher humidity than the "outside" at ground level/above.
    P.S. I`m a very nice person too, so is Merlin! ;)
     
  4. murrindindi

    murrindindi Elite Member

    A few photos of the different habitats they are found in.... 8421974788_8826d98dac_b.jpg 8421964340_6b558ea490_b.jpg 8420875599_d99295e24e_b.jpg 8421968568_d6ac266ec0_b.jpg
     
  5. AmityReptiles

    AmityReptiles Well Established Member

    Again, the notion that sand is acceptable because it is found in parts of their natural range ignores the fact that most bearded dragons from any given clutch in the wild don't make it to adulthood. Following that logic we can add in the enclosure mites, ticks, parasites, and predators because that is also found in their natural environment.
    Rules for the wild don't always apply to captivity. That's not to say that sand isn't acceptable for some reptiles, but history has shown many beardies die from sand impaction, and you can't say conclusively that this was caused by other environmental factors.
     
    Hisharleyquinn likes this.
  6. murrindindi

    murrindindi Elite Member


    Here we go again!? Impaction in captivity is caused mainly by poor conditions (husbandry) when they are kept subpar which is quite common, anything can cause an impaction (incuding particulate substrates, foods of any type/size). Show me the results of post mortems along with the details of enclosure, temps, humidity etc that the animal was kept in and even when everything was "supportive" the lizards died from impaction.
    Also show me the results you have of studies on wild dragons that died from impaction. By FAR the most appropriate type of substrate is particulate (a soil/sand mix).
     
  7. AmityReptiles

    AmityReptiles Well Established Member

    I'm not getting into this again with you, if you want to hear my arguments again then feel free to look at our previous conversations.
    But as long as you continue to give bad information to keepers that could possibly lead to their beardie dying, I will continue to state the dangers that are clearly present, well known and well supported in the herp community.
    A sand/soil mix may be appropriate depending on the amount of sand, but a pure sand substrate is definitely not appropriate for bearded dragons.

    If you want me to show you the sources yet again that support this, then like I said please review our previous conversation on this matter.
     
  8. murrindindi

    murrindindi Elite Member

    You`ve shown NOTHING in the way of post mortem results and complete details of how the dragons that died from impaction were kept from start to finish. Many live their lives on sand dunes in some parts, for someone half a world away to deny that fact is utterly ridiculous. You are just another "caresheet gained knowledge" armchair expert.
    The hobby (and husbandry methods) have moved on for some of us at least....
     
  9. AmityReptiles

    AmityReptiles Well Established Member

    Dude. Calm down. You are embarrassing yourself...
    like I said read our previous convo on the matter :) I don't need to go over everything again because the OP has clearly done the research and is in the process of taking the right precautions.

    The inflammatory insults aren't going to get anywhere with me. But nice try.
     
  10. murrindindi

    murrindindi Elite Member


    Hi, just to let you know I`m pefectly cool, calm and collected!
    You claim (falsely) they do not live on sand in the wild, I`m not sure how you know that, taking into account you`ve never visited my country so obviosly not seen Bearded dragons in any of the various habitats they live in. Sand dunes ARE mostly sand, the spend their entire lives living on them in some parts (proven beyond a shadow of a doubt).
    If the OP had done any research she would have been aware that the conditions in the enclosure were not suitable, in particular the ambient temps in the coolest parts @ almost 90f. Neither or us have seen photos of the setup and it doesn`t seem as if we will, all we know is that there`s a cork hide and a reptile hammock (for basking on)? Before the OP gave the temp details I merely suggested that sand substrate was perfectly acceptable providing the conditions were suitable. I would not advise it for hatchlings although many keepers do and with success.
    I took it that in this case the animal was out of the hatchling/juvenile stage because it was described as being "big".
    You to claim the many dragons that were said to have died from impaction was caused by housing them on sand, yet still you do not offer a single necropsy result showing details of the conditions the animal was kept in, why is that?
    If you`re interested in seeing filmed evidence of Bearded dragons living on sand dunes I`ll be hapy to link you....
    "Inflamatory insults"? Nooooo, just pointing out how poorly informed you are in at least the above respects! ;)
     
  11. Again... busy... here's the pictures... I typed the cool side wrong... it's 85... this is Falcor... and this is his room... that's collard greens in his dish and I just literally put some crickets in there... yes I know blah sand bad.... I'm planning on making his room bioactive... I say room because he's my buddy and when it's warm outside, we hang out a lot....i don't have a humidity gauge yet jsyk
     

    Attached Files:

  12. AmityReptiles

    AmityReptiles Well Established Member

    We have already had this discussion! :D But please, continue rambling on the subject. If you would like to see tons of pictures of dead beardies with sand impaction you can find that yourself quite easily. And just because you "once lived in Australia and saw some lizards out in the sand" doesn't make you an expert on the subject of anything, let alone captive bred bearded dragons. ;) I would gladly love to see a study that has proven 0% danger of sand substrates with bearded dragons, since we are asking for non-existent scientific studies now. But like I said, you can find many necropsy photos of sand impacted bearded dragons on your own. Even if truly believe that the risk of sand impaction is negligible, this is not something that can be definitively proven, especially given the number of deaths, and you should not propogate this idea to other keepers, as you could be responsible for their beloved pets dying. Is that what you really want? :)
     
  13. murrindindi

    murrindindi Elite Member


    I asked for evidence that all the dragons that died from impaction were kept in fully supportive conditions which would be an obvious sign that a sand substrate will cause impaction irrespective of that. You`re the one declaring they have in seemingly large numbers? If trying to clarify these issues is "rambling" I will continue to do that. By the way, I didn`t "once live in Australia" I was born and raised there, and AM familiar with them in the wild as well as in captivity.
    I offer advise based on what I`ve learned and experienced, nothing less than that (yourself)?
    May I ask what your username signifies (if anything) I thought maybe you ran a rescue center or petshop?
     
  14. murrindindi

    murrindindi Elite Member


    Hi, the Solar-glo is o.k, although the screen will block at least some of the UVB. If the hammock is the basking spot it`s practically useless because it won`t hold any heat, a piece of flat stone or large ceramic tile would be more effective.
    You haven`t said how you measure the basking surface temp or what the humidity range is and how that`s measured?
    If you could cover the screen as completely as possible it will make stabilising the conditions much easier (kitchen foil/similar will work temporarily) although if you do that you`ll need to check temps, etc again. Can you also say what the other bulb is (it looks like a double bulb holder)? The lowest ambient only needs to be between approx. 72 to 75f, at the present time it is still too high. I think if you follow the advise offered your dragon should thrive...
     
  15. We have a temp gun. Everything I've read before and after getting him states the cool side is perfect temp that I have. The other bulb is a heat bulb I just can't remember the kind and the box is gone... I don't have a humidity gauge as of yet.... his cork wood is his baskng the hammock is for when he wants to hang around...

    I just want to know why my crickets died... that's all
     
  16. murrindindi

    murrindindi Elite Member

    I have an idea as to why the crickets died, but I`m more concerned about the Bearded dragon. The cool side temps ARE too high no matter what you`ve read elsewhere (by at least 10f); the point is, the lizard cannot cool down anywhere in the enclosure, that is a very real danger to it`s health (life). The fact the hide is also the basking spot means again no cooler parts even inside.
    You need to remove the bulb (not the Solar-glo) then check the lowest air temps (you cannot do that with the Temp-gun). I am guessing the heat and dryness are what`s killing the crickets, they have nowhere cooler or more humid to retreat to either. A digital hygrometer is urgent...
    Can you please link me to the caresheets/other info that you`re relying on for appropriate conditions for Bearded dragons in captivity?
     
  17. How to Setup A Bearded Dragon Habitat » Step-by-Step



    I don't even have his heat lamp on a lot because the other one produces a lot of heat. Hey if you want to give me money to take the bus down to the pet store to buy a humidity gauge and a digital thermometer that would be great I've had him since December. This is how it's been since December. The crickets have never died before just those 2 times. I do have a couple of thermal thermometers in his cage but i know they aren't that reliable. I'll move his hide over to the cool side.
     
  18. murrindindi

    murrindindi Elite Member

    Rather than move the basking spot hide, put another hide in the cooler side then he can choose (even a small cardboard/plastic box). A digital hygrometer will cost you around $13 from Walmart or Lowes/similar, again that is urgent. If you cannot afford to buy the equipment the dragon`s health is going to suffer, perhaps greatly.
    The information you`ve been relying on is not reliable at least in some respects, not surprising because the internet is full of absolute garbage... Anyone can write a caresheet, most are just copied from one another by beginners....
     

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