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Black Throat Not Eating

Discussion in 'Monitors' started by Tattoosbyzoo, Nov 8, 2010.

  1. SwampDOnkey

    SwampDOnkey Well-Known Member

    Nope, what I said was "not all animals are normal regardless of age". Your animal is undersized for his age, is what im saying.

    Right, and in your research, how many other black throats were as small as yours at that age?


    Really? Because you seem to be ignoring it in the case of your animal.


    Ah, ok well you've only had him a couple of months then. That means he may be much younger, or its not yout fault.

    EXACTLY!!! I did tons of research and that included compiling data exhaustively and talking with the experts to make sure all was fine and dandy. I did it so much that it came as a real shock when I saw the size of your animal at said age.

    I would feed him all he wants because he's still a "baby" but thats me. Im not saying to make the animal obese but you havent provided pics of anything so your animal/ husbandry cant really be commented on.

    But ok, if you want to just leave it that then alrighty. Good luck.
     
  2. bighog85

    bighog85 Elite Member

    Swampdonkey, I frequent prett much every forum that you do and everwhere you go your ideas and thoughts on how your animal is and how others should be get shot down. You are a newbie when it comes to monitors and most reptiles from what I can tell and no matter how much "research" you do, it can't make up for years of experience that a lot of the people that you argue with have. You have tried to brag about your "Skittles" and nobody cares because you bring it up expecting to get a bunch of praise. I know for a fact that you are not welcome on several different sites because of this attitude and for you to come here and start throwing info around is setting you up for the same response here. Nobody here has a problem with people coming on here to share their knowledge, but lets make sure that you have something useful to say.

    Also, it is better to have a monitor that is on the small side than one that is outgrowing its own body. As long as it has a steady supply of food, it will be fine. Animals in the wild do not grow that fast.
     
  3. SwampDOnkey

    SwampDOnkey Well-Known Member

    Actually no, the only one I dont bother with anymore was the first one I joined, **********. I would agree that I am "not welcome" there lol, but thats the only one. You dont argue with the gurus, lesson learned.

    As far as me "expecting praise"...where? Ive shared lots of my experiences, especially with my Black Throat because its my first one, so obviously I was engaging anyone and everyone in conversation about the species. That happens by posting question (which I do) about the species, and getting answers or discussion.

    How many black throats have you had?

    But thats fine, make it persponal if you need to. Whatever it takes to avoid adressing my last 2 posts to you right? Right.
    Who knows, maybe I would get frustrated and start making personal attacks too in your shoes.
     
  4. Merlin

    Merlin Administrator Staff Member Premium Member

    And if this starts getting ANY MORE personal, this thread is getting shut down!
    We can discuss our differences of opinion politely or we can just be quiet. And then NOBODY learns anything!
     
  5. MDFMONITOR

    MDFMONITOR Elite Member

    First off in the past i've ended up in situations i didn't want to be in, sometimes my fault, sometimes down to others, i refuse to get into any **** throwing arguments, so if i disappear you know why.:)

    As we know there's an average to most animals growth, some will be below, some will exceed the average.

    Our job is to provide top notch food & access to the correct habitat to allow an animal to thrive, we all have difference skill levels & interpretations of our captives behaviour which in many cases creates a big gap in our understanding of our captives.

    12" at 8 months suggests there's something wrong in the husbandry, 48" in 8 months may also may suggest something wrong in a keepers husbandry, as in excessive growth.

    Just because we can achieve fast growth in captivity don't mean we should, i've had my lesson in that area & i aim for a more steadier growth now, but even with that i'd be looking at 3" a month thereabouts at a young age.

    Tattoosbyzoo try & get some pics posted & lets see if we can sort the problem out for you!:)
     
  6. SwampDOnkey

    SwampDOnkey Well-Known Member

    Thanks for your input MDF, you have some awesome animals and Ive seen your vids more than once. Im against powerfeeding as well, saw too many burms turn into sausages in that quest for the "12ft in one year" thing.
    Im not sure why Skitto is so big, maybe a locality (genetic) thing. He's actually fairly lean for a black throat his age. I took heed of the late Mark Bayless's advice and keep rodents to a minimum- adding lean fish, crustations, and snails to his daily diet.
     
  7. Tattoosbyzoo

    Tattoosbyzoo Well-Known Member

    i tried posting the pics but i cant find how to upload them and then i tried linking the images from facebook... how do u post images?
     
  8. mld

    mld Subscribed User Premium Member

    I've never done it from Facebook, but if you have images on your computer you can download images to your albums in (My Info) just create an album name it and click download images, browse and select image and click on upload, wait for it to accept and press add image. then you can copy the picture URL and paste it to the post. I'm sure there is an easier way but I'm not computer savvy.
     
  9. Tattoosbyzoo

    Tattoosbyzoo Well-Known Member

    ok so heres some pics. as i said hes back to eating normally again i truely believe it was from the shed or constapation and i gave him a warm bath either way hes back to normal. but here they are none the less.

    the pic of him in my hands is when i first got him the pic of him on the mound is him now. ive had him 2 months.

    the pic of the water was custom built by me and i put live feeder fish in there every once in a great while.. **** actually dive down and get em.

    the hide is actually much larger inside and the hole can be enlarged as he grows. he often bask on the mound where the 125 watt is or in the branch where the 75 watt is... he also hides in the fake fern a lot too. to my knowledge i built his enclosure to meet his needs the best i could.. right now he has plenty of room but i am very aware this isnt big enough for him when he grows
     

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  10. SwampDOnkey

    SwampDOnkey Well-Known Member

    Thanks for the pix. Good news is, no way is he 8 months old. He's a baby and something you can raise up into a healthy adult. Ive seen stunted animals before and they dont look anything like that.
    One thing with the pics though is that we cant see the enclosure. Stand back and get the whole thing in. Get some shots of the lights and what you use to heat it.

    I see you're using an aquarium which is a big no-no. How are you sealing the top?
    It just doesnt have that "bright, hot, and humid" look. if you are going to use an aquarium, seal the top to about this extent:

    DSC00952.jpg

    Notice no light leaks out the top. With the lights removed it looks like this:

    DSC01179.jpg

    But my real advice to you is to ditch the aquarium all together and build a sealed wooden enclosure with a sliding glass door and drill a few vent holes about half way up the sides. Note that the enclocure pictured was for a hatchling water monitor and not my black throat.

    About the going off feed thing...Never heard of babies doing that. If it was constipation then most likely it was a heat or hydration issue. Yes, they can dehydrate with plenty of water around if the air is dry- its the whole reason behind sealing the enclosure and not using aquariums.
     

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  11. Tattoosbyzoo

    Tattoosbyzoo Well-Known Member

    I bought it and kept the one side glass top and built the other side mesh i mist the encloser i guess im not sure what the difference is between wood and glass i does get plenty hot in there. It doesnt have that ambiant look like yours cuz the wall are a tan wood color i have that jungle print.
     
  12. SwampDOnkey

    SwampDOnkey Well-Known Member

    Its tough to do with an aquarium. I heard an excellent analogy by Crocdoc in dealing with covered/ mesh tops. It went something like this:

    Heat rises and takes humidity with it. Now picture a bucket with a screened bottom. Water would fall right through the mesh from the force of gravity. Now cover half of that screen (as you have done with your top) and refill the bucket. Water will still drop through the bottom, but a bit slower. The same thing happens with the humidity in your enclosure, only its heat driving the water out instead of gravity.

    Good analogy!
    You say you mist your enclosure and thats kind of like pouring a glass of water in that bucket we talked about. You'll get a momentary burst of humidity (or water level in the case of the bucket), but it will quickly dry out (taking heat with it actually) and all of it will escape through the screen on top. So you get peaks and valleys when you want stable conditions in the enclosure.

    A closed top enclosure with lights inside will serve your animal better than an aquarium ever could. I'd get to work on it ASAP.

    Hope this helps:)
     
  13. kriminaal

    kriminaal HH Block Leader Staff Member Premium Member

    Nicely put Swamp.
    People often get caught up with the whole air circulation thing, and think it's bad to totally enclose the habitat.
    You should be opening your monitor habitat twice a day for water or feeding anyway. The opening of the doors will flush in plenty of new air.
    Sure having an excellent humidity gradient and a constant supply of fresh air is great. But it's more important to keep that humidity up.
     
  14. SwampDOnkey

    SwampDOnkey Well-Known Member

    Thanks!
    About the air getting stale thing. What I do is toss an aquarium air-stone in the water and leave the airator running all the time. The bubbles seem to encourage drinking, it humidifies the air, and constantly pumps in a tiny stream of fresh air.
    With a wooded enclosure this means just drilling a 1/8" hole next to the water and running the air line through the side. Pretty much covers the air exchange even though I do have vents that can be opened and closed if need be.

    Here's some examples:

    DSC01377.jpg

    DSC01167.jpg

    It was discovered with my caimen. Once he ate all the fish and I removed the airator, the conditions just werent right afterward.

    caimen.jpg

    Hope this helps!
     

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  15. kriminaal

    kriminaal HH Block Leader Staff Member Premium Member

    Dang, an air stone. I never thought of that.
    Nice setups. Although the second picture looks like a tank of sewage,lol
     
  16. MDFMONITOR

    MDFMONITOR Elite Member

    Thank you for that i really enjoyed working with monitors even with the lows that came with the hobby sometimes, my girl has run off with a male so i'm out the monitor game at the mo, my big concern was not providing the correct environment for her nesting purposes.

    The loft just wasn't suited to large soil filled nest boxes, so i called it a day for now, i've moved onto to yellow lined plated lizards which i know a foot of soil will keep them more than happy:)
    PictureorVideo190.jpg

    she's bottom of pic ( picture curtsey of chuckwalla)>
    user25279_pic115392_1286910161_thumb.jpg
     

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  17. SwampDOnkey

    SwampDOnkey Well-Known Member

    lol really? You're most likely seeing the rocks and other substrate at the bottom of the tub. The brown substrate on the floor of the enclosure is soil. All the watr is actually run through a fairly powerful filter and so stays cystal clear.
     
  18. MDFMONITOR

    MDFMONITOR Elite Member

    Yea that a baby with plenty of growing to do!!:) was it the old it's 8 months it won't grow much bigger as the pet shop sold you it?

    & yes very pretty youngster you have & even though the tanks not right by the look of the time you've put into the setup so far, i think your monitor going to be spoilt!

    As you've been advised close the top off to retain the humidity, you'll see your captive eat everything going then, keep handling to a minimum on their terms. Good 120/125f basking spot & start building a bigger cage, the one in the previous post was 14x4x3h with a nest box 4x2x2h built on the side.

    this sav care sheet is very near the blackthroat's care just on a bigger scale & the food gets bigger , not so much worry on feeding insects over 3 foot plus, also some good explanations on taming & fishtank cages>
    Housing – What Not to Do | The Savannah Monitor, Varanus exanthematicus
    Housing – Adult Enclosure | The Savannah Monitor, Varanus exanthematicus
    Health – Dehydration and Gout | The Savannah Monitor, Varanus exanthematicus
    Taming and Handling | The Savannah Monitor, Varanus exanthematicus
     
  19. SwampDOnkey

    SwampDOnkey Well-Known Member

    Yeah Ive seen some stunted animals and they dont look like that. The ones ive seen were fairly dark- looking and had some "off" body proportions such as narrow heads on the males, short legs, etc.

    And yeah dont savs overlap terratory with some of the Albigs? Seems like I remember Bayless mentioning finding savs in the stomachs of black throats.
     
  20. Tattoosbyzoo

    Tattoosbyzoo Well-Known Member

    No i knew what i was getting into before i bought a monitor i researched a bunch before hand. The guy was selling him cuz he did not. So i got him practically for free lol. Guess he didnt know they get 6 ft im actually building out half of one of my guest rooms with extensive climbing branches and a waterfall it will be from floor to ceiling so im gunna have to figure out how to make sure heating and humidity will be right
     

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