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Bearded Dragon After Mbd

Discussion in 'Bearded Dragons' started by Airmid, Dec 31, 2017.

  1. Airmid

    Airmid Member

    Hello everyone. I'm doing research prior to adopting a juvenile beardie who was surrendered. He and his siblings all had Metabolic Bone Disease and have been treated and recovered or are recovering. I've worked with reptiles most of my life, including Bearded Dragons, and have been very fortunate to have had minimal experience with the dreaded MBD, so I have some questions before I bring the cutie home. I will appreciate any help I can get as this little one has been through a lot and deserves the best.

    Question 1.
    Will their bones be frail?
    I'm asking because I'm planning out their tank and am trying to decide if ramps, steps, or the more common closely spaced ledges will be suitable for going from basking spot to basking spot.

    Question 2.
    Not that I care over much, but what are the odds that this will affect little one's size/sexual maturity?
    I may want to introduce a friend for this one once it reaches full growth, but not before it's too old to bond easily if I can avoid it.

    Question 3.
    Has anyone had a beardie post MBD have issues with eye sight/depth perception?
    The tank I'll be using is 20" high and I'm concerned that placing the ledges high enough to get the best exposure from UVB bulb will be a potential fall risk. I plan on using something like corn cob bedding, which I've had success with in the past, so it won't be a hard landing, but it's still a concern.

    Thank you for your time,
    Airmid
     
  2. kriminaal

    kriminaal HH Block Leader Staff Member Premium Member

    Fortunately I have not had much experience with this either.
    From I have seen over the years growth will be stunted and while the bones seem to strengthen then can be malformed.
     
  3. Merlin

    Merlin Administrator Staff Member Premium Member

    Corn cob bedding is one of the worst things you can use. It is a breeding ground for bacteria and fungus. It was originally used for the bottom of bird cages where the bird never came in contact with it. It was never intended for an animal to actually live in contact with it. Even the bird people have moved away from it.
     
  4. Airmid

    Airmid Member

    Really? I had no problems with it when I used it for my colony. I'm honestly not surprised though, like with anything grown and processed I'm sure there are exceptions to every rule. Would you be able to suggest something with a similar, almost springy, consistency but minimal scent? My husband has an annoyingly strong sense of smell and anything strong like coconut coir has a chance of giving him headache.

    Thank you.


    And kriminaal, I've already noticed all of the babies had stunted snouts, stubby or deformed toes and nipped tails. These little dudes had it very rough. Which is why I'm here before my baby comes home.
    Thanks for responding.
     
  5. Merlin

    Merlin Administrator Staff Member Premium Member

    For babies I would not recommend any particulate substrate. With adults people generally use soil.
     
  6. Airmid

    Airmid Member

    Apologies if I gave the impression but these aren't neonates, more stunted juveniles. I have no intention of using soil as I've had too many issues with mold and such in the past, even with sterilized growing medium. My beardies only got soil for egg laying, and that was a mixed medium that had been boiled and/or microwaved prior to introducing. I also never put food items directly on the bedding to prevent potential for impacting. Obviously crickets are the exception, but even then I prefer to feed those only in a separate bin to avoid crickets nibbling on the lizard.
     
  7. AmityReptiles

    AmityReptiles Well Established Member

    Have you considered dust free shredded paper bedding? I have some of my animals on this and it's very soft and cushy like tissue paper. It's not very natural but seems to work for arid species. It is also scent free.
     
  8. murrindindi

    murrindindi Elite Member

    The substrate medium is your choice but if you had problems with mold growth there was something wrong with the conditions (if this was in Bearded dragon enclosures)?
    Do you have any idea of their ages?
    Impaction is generally caused by inferior conditions (the temps and humidity in particular) and in that case absolutely anything could cause an impaction.
     
  9. murrindindi

    murrindindi Elite Member

    Bearded dragons inhabit a wide variety of conditions, they are not only "arid area" dwellers, the humidity in some parts of their range can be over 60% at times.
     
  10. AmityReptiles

    AmityReptiles Well Established Member

    Thanks for the info, I must have been misinformed. Even so, I believe this bedding works in most climates, save for extremely humid/damp enclosures.
     
  11. Airmid

    Airmid Member

    So now that the seemingly obligatory debate regarding substrate has been hashed out, can anyone answer my questions?
     
  12. AmityReptiles

    AmityReptiles Well Established Member

    You mean since we were attempting to answer the question on substrate that you initiated?
    In answer to your 3 questions, the first two are possible, but there are many factors to consider such as the stage of recovery, how advanced the mbd was in the first place, the size of the animal, etc. It's impossible to know exactly what to expect... you may be able to have a vet test the bone density and development and that might give you a better idea of how they will develop.
    As to your last question, I don't believe eyesight is usually affected with MBD, but I might be concerned with motor coordination.
     
  13. murrindindi

    murrindindi Elite Member

    Hi, I`ll answer the second question; the dragon/s do not need a "friend" now or in the future, no need to think about breeding either (not that you`ve suggested you would) because there are already more than enough to go round! ;)
    It might help if you could get a short video so we could see the range of movement the lizard has just now, as far as advise about enclosure setup (safety concerns).
    Are you planning on using an all glass fishtank, at least initially?
     
  14. Airmid

    Airmid Member

    So Tyrion has been home for a almost a week now. He was extremely sluggish the first few days, only really perking up when crickets showed up. When he hadn't pooed by the 4th day I put him in a warm soak and rubbed the area around his cloaca, like you would if needing to potty a kitten. It worked, resulting in a poo that was reassuringly free of parasite larvae. He has been much more active since then, though he definitely has some coordination issues, which I will address via decorating his tank with ramps vs. ledges and making sure everything is textured. I keep saying "he" because there is definite development of the femoral pores, which indicates he will likely reach breeding maturity. Knowing he is a male, and with how much he has bonded with me, (read I'm his favorite perch and source of food) I have no doubts he will stay an only dragon for the foreseeable future.
    For the time being he is being fed outside of his tank, but will stay on paper towel until I am sure he is moving his bowels on his own. Once that occurs I will be moving him to a mixture of calci-sand, bark mulch, and coconut coir that was advised by the individual I adopted him from.

    If anyone would like I would be happy to post photos of the vivarium once it is complete.

    Thank you all for your help. I was originally very nervous about my little man, but now see there was no real reason for too much concern.
     
  15. AmityReptiles

    AmityReptiles Well Established Member

    Absolutely no calci sand, that is a very dangerous product. Use playsand instead.
     
  16. Merlin

    Merlin Administrator Staff Member Premium Member

    Calcium sand is one of the things that should be taken off the market. Its awful stuff.
     

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