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Animals Privacy Rights?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Og_, Apr 30, 2010.

  1. Og_

    Og_ Elite Member

  2. snubber

    snubber Elite Member

    WOW, thats all i can say. It makes no sense how would they expect people to learn if they cant view animals from film. I know i cant just take a trip to Australia to view kangaroos.
     
  3. Og_

    Og_ Elite Member

    So is bird watching out of the question now? lol This is just things like PETA run amok!

    My attitude is that if animals don't want us to see them mating, Then why do they do it out in the open for everyone, including other animals, to see? It's because they don't have the ability to care!
    Only humans have the perception of morals and ethics.
     
  4. snubber

    snubber Elite Member

    I agree but what about the celebrities who walk the streets and have to deal with paparazzi basically the same idea. And i don't see people fighting for them.
     
  5. Og_

    Og_ Elite Member

    Most of them have lived their lives drawing attention to themselves. No one that I know feels sorry for them! LOL
     
  6. Og_

    Og_ Elite Member

    In general, Does anyone believe that animals feel shame?
     
  7. purplemuffin

    purplemuffin Elite Member

    Sometimes I feel there is something, maybe not shame as we feel it, and not in all animals. I notice it most in parrots I interact with.. and my dog! If he does something bad, boy does he hide! Even if no one sees him do it, and no one's ever hit him before.. He knows!! Little brat! Even if it's just a knowledge of 'this=negative'

    but no, I don't think they feel any shame or embarrassment being watched..I think this whole thing is total bogus! It's important to be educated--yes, I understand limitations, not stressing an animal with constant filming and disruption of it's home..But this is silly!
     
  8. Midori

    Midori Elite Member

    Well I think they might get embarrassed at times, I've had my horses hide because of something they did.

    One time me and my mom where checking our males horses privates to make sure he didn't have an infection and he was fine with it. But then the female horses walked up and started looking at what me and my mom where looking at. He decieded hiding behind me and my mom was needed when then girl horses wouldn't stop their snooping.

    So yes sometimes they don't want to be watched, but on another day he could careless if they wanted to stare at him in that way. He mostly didn't want them snooping because me and my mom where right there and finding them watching us treat his issue funny.

    Animals feed off human emotions and how humans react. The longer they're around humans the more of our social reactions they pick up on and copy.

    I honestly don't think 'wild animals' care if we film them or not. I mean unless they try and remove themselves from being around the human. But that's most likely because they don't want to be around the human at all because they don't know if the human's going to hurt them or not. But if a human installs a camera and isn't there and the animal does such and such behavior infront of the camera? Then we're not disrupting then and stressing them out, and we get to see the animal do something we'd never get to see. Great! I sure don't think the animal is going to care if we watch it later.
     
  9. Og_

    Og_ Elite Member

    I think if some greater being that I was used to came into my room and started handling my genitals, My anxiety level would jump up a few notches! If more people(Horses) came into the room, I think my anxiety level would be pushed way over the top!
    I think the male horses were agitated enough before the phillies came in!
     
  10. Dragoness

    Dragoness Elite Member

    I'm pretty sure that some of the more intelligent animals have the capacity to feel "shame" or something similar. Like when you come home from grocery shopping, and your dog just has that look on his face, his tail is tucked, he's slinking, and looking up while his head points downwards. He knows he did something bad, something that broke the rules. Then you see the garbage can, tipped over, coffee grounds EVERYWHERE.

    I don't believe all animals can learn shame. I think only those animals with a higher intelligence can learn it.

    I'm not even sure animals in the wild do learn it - (I could be wrong) it seems to me, the only ones who do are the ones who live in contact with people, trying to become part of our pack (canines) or flock (birds) or herd (horses).

    Does anyone know about the wild counterparts of the animals listed above? What their natural interactions are when they are not raised by humans? do they display the same "shame" behaviors as they do in the presence of humans?
     
  11. Merlin

    Merlin Administrator Staff Member Premium Member

    Thats not shame so much as it is a submissive animal approaching a dominant one. In the wild such behavior is meant to ward off a violent confrontation from a dominant pack member or the leader. There are rules in pack life and if you violate those rules, you are chastised. It has nothing to do with being embarrased about your behavior. Its more about,...I am fixing to get my butt kicked! Please don't hurt me!

    Shame is a human emotion. The animal behaviors that we interpret in terms of what it meants to us have a different meaning in reality.
    Animals have no sense of "shame". In fact there is an old saying,...

    Human beings are the only animals that blush,...
    or tha thave need to!

    As for not allowing film makers to film animals because their "privacy" is being violated,...the guy really needs to get a life! Animals mate in the middle of the herd and do everything else right out in the open. The only reason that they would hide for some reason is for self preservation, not some anthropomorphic idea of something being shameful.

    Were it not for such film makers many of us would never have knowledge of the other creatures that share our world. And if we don't know about something, how can we care about it?
     
  12. Og_

    Og_ Elite Member

    I don't know what kind of dog that you have, But my dog would be jumping up and down like,"See what kind of fun I had today!" lol
     
  13. Og_

    Og_ Elite Member

    I actually believe that this is a part of a broader movement that some of you may have heard of. It entails basically giving animals all of the human, civil, and legal rights that people have! It even would allow a person to sue humanity on behalf of animals, however that would work.
    It's all PETA on steroids!
     
  14. LLoydene

    LLoydene Elite Member

    Do they ??:eek:
     
  15. Og_

    Og_ Elite Member

    Definitely! If you disagree, Name one species that does. And tell me how do you know.

    I will go ahead and answer the anticipated question of,"How do I know they dont?" My answer is, By their behaviour.

    A species that is capable of morals and ethics (Us), would be able to see it in other species if it were there!
     
  16. LLoydene

    LLoydene Elite Member

    That was sarcasam.. Not a dissagreement.. Relax!
     
  17. Og_

    Og_ Elite Member

    I'm relaxed, I just wasn't sure if you were one of those who believe in fairy tales! lol We get them fom time to time!
     
  18. Orca

    Orca Elite Member

    First of all, I thought that article was ridiculous. As long as the film makers aren't harassing the animals in any way, it shouldn't matter. Most are done from a great distance anyway.

    I don't see that as shame. I see that as the dog has made some kind of association between the "bad" behavior it has done and the consequences it brings (a stern voice, time out in a crate, etc.)

    I think putting shame in with animals is anthropomorphic. Do animals have their own feelings and emotions? Yes, I think they do. Are some very similar to ours? Yes. But I don't believe we as humans can measure that.

    EDIT: To Merlin's comment about animals mating out in the open... I've had male chinchillas at the store masturbate while sitting on their hide in the middle of the day. No shame there!
     
  19. Frognut

    Frognut Subscribed User Premium Member

    I believe in fairy tales... I'm still waiting for my fairy Godmother to wave her magic wand over me and make me graceful enough to dance with the prince and not trip over his feet!:D

    I agree with Merlin - it's a dominance issue. I had to learn what the trainer called 'Pack Training' when I had 4 dogs and TONS of fighting issues. Basically, I had to make them learn that I was alpha. Only after that did my dogs show that 'I'm sorry, bowed head' look. To this day, my husky will hit the floor and roll over with her paws into the air in total submission if she does something wrong and I raise my voice to her. Many dogs already accept us as Alpha, so its a natural reaction for them to act submissive and 'sorry' for what they know they shouldn't have done.

    I also agree, the article is absurd! If we stop filming and studying these animals we won't learn anything -- like when there is a problem causing the extinction of a species. So these animal 'activists' are only hurting the very thing their warped minds think they are saving. (Not sure what they are saving them from, but whatever~)
     
  20. Og_

    Og_ Elite Member

    I still believe this is just a ruse to push the whole "Animal Rights" issue up another notch so that these people can call the previous arguments "Beyond debate"!
    And next they will be comparing those who disagree with them to "Holocaust Deniers" and "Slavery Enthusiasts"!

    It's all an attempt to confuse people on the issue and make them feel guilty!
     

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