My wife and I just adopted a baby water dragon with a suppossed genetic defect. Petco claims it was checked out by a vet????

The babies back legs are splayed out in the back and upwards some. He's getting small callous's on his bottom side where he drags himself. He gets around fine and is a speedy little devil. He is eating and pooping fine and likes his water bowl. We will be getting him a uvb light soon and his food is usually dusted with calcium/D3.

My wife feared Metabolic Bone Disease and when I saw him It looked more like his pelvis or back was broken and it healed in that position. He sleeps a lot and is very calm. He likes to get rubbed. His name is Drago.

Any thoughts about this would be appreciated. I just don't trust Petco.

Bob

petco isnt a good place to get wds I got all 3 of mine from there and all of em have had problems, my newest one..which is a baby lol, is missing 2 toes and had snout damage..my other 2 had snotdamage also...and they are speedy! lol, and also very calm..alli can say about the problem with his legs is you should take him/her to a vet

Hi Bob, welcome to HC. Does it look like your water dragon has cricket legs? If so it has or had Metabolic Bone Disease in the past ... since he's still dragging and you say his back looks a little deformed I recommend going to a reptile vet ASAP- as in this week.

Bring a less than 24 hour old stool sample with you to the vets and have it tested for parasites (since many new reptile pets do end up having parasite infections it's a good idea to check at least once a year.).

In the meantime- yes put calcium on the dragons food. I'm not a fan of suppliments with D3 in them- D3 is fat soluable meaning it stays in the bodies fat supply and can build up to toxic levels pretty easily. I prefer to let my reptiles make their own D3 with proper UVB lighting supplimentation. So- my recommendation is plain calcium (ground up human calcium suppliments are fine to use too) and to make sure that your lighting is correct.

Do you have a UVB light? What brand are you using if you have one? Do you have it set up so that there is no glass between the light and the dragon? Glass blocks out most of the usable UVB rays which would render that expensive light useless.

Tell us more about how you have your dragon set up and well try to help you. But I do recommend a visit to a veterinarian that has experience with reptiles as soon as possible.

If you need help finding a reptile vet send another post telling us approximately where you are and we can help.

__________________
Tricia

Thank you mshrmheadcharge and Tricia for all the good advise.

Tricia, my wife says thanks for confirming her thoughts. His back legs are like cricket legs. We do have a reptile vet by us and I ran out of UVB lights and have to get some more. Right now he has a night light (zoo med bright red light) and a temporary 60 watt light bulb. What do you think of using bone meal?? The lights do not go through any glass. His home has newspapers for substrate and he has a climbing area to go up on and hide in. He also has a water bowl that he can sit it and soak himself. The calcium we use is Rep-Cal (red label).

He sleeps almost all the time though and about the only thing I seen him eat is a cricket. He gets fruit and veggies chopped fine for his size.

Thanks again for the help
Bob and Michelle (Wells, Maine)

Welcome Bob and Michelle, looks like you got some great advice there....Petco is notorious for bad care....but sounds like the little guy is in good hands now....best wishes....

Oh and you can put your location right in your profile...just go to User CP and change your info....good luck...Lyn

__________________
Warmest Regards from Lyn

Hi Bob and Michelle,

To me, cricket legs is a classic sign of Metabolic Bone Disease in a water dragon (could be current or past Metabolic Bone Disease when it's seen), I haven't really seen it occur as often with other lizards.

Get the new UVB lights ASAP, it sounds like your dragon needs them.

you asked about using bone meal? Do you mean Bone-aid? (from pet store) When I think of bone meal I think of something I put in my garden. bone-aid by T-rex is a liquid calcium suppliment- I don't know how the strength of this compares to the liquid calcium that you can get over the counter at your local pharmacy. I've only used human grade liquid calcium for sick reptiles, powdered calcium (no phosphorus, no D3) with healthy reptiles. If the bone aid doesn't have any added D3 then yes you could use it, or buy some human liquid calcium at a pharmacy (dose for reptile with possible Metabolic Bone Disease is 1mg/kg per day).

You said he sleeps all day ... have you tried peeking at him when he can't see you? he might be appearing to sleep (shut eyes) when he knows you are near the cage because he's nervous. They sometimes do this when they are new to a home. You can tape some paper around the outside of the cage (not near heat sources), maybe about 4' to 6" high so he can't see out easily. that will make him feel more secure and hopefully adjust to his new home faster.

he could also be sleeping because he's sick. That's why it's important to find out if he's just stressed and nervous when he knows you are near the cage (as described above) or if he really is sleeping. If he's sleeping this isn't normal and he's probably quiet ill. Go to vet ASAP.

Make sure your cage temps are correct. 84 to 88 F during the day with a basking area of up to 95 F, and between 75 and 80 F at night. Since he seems sick try to keep the night temps up to at least 80 F until he's healthy again.

I hope this helps!

__________________
Tricia

Thanks Tricia,

That was of big help. The bone meal we use for our tegu's and we got it from a health store, it's human grade.

Drago (alias, 1 water dragon) went to a reptile vet today and I'll let you be the judge of what we found.

Michelle took drago in, it was the same vet used by Petco that told them he had a genetic deformation. We wanted to see if she was worth while and indeed a reptile vet.

In the consulting room the vet was pretty nice and asked Michelle that we mentioned Metabolic Bone Disease when we called for an appointment. The vet then asked what was Metabolic Bone Disease and michelle told her. At this point she asked to take the little guy out back for a minute to show another technician. Michelle thinks that she went on line to find out about Metabolic Bone Disease. When she came back she confirmed michelle's diagnosis. Yes it was Metabolic Bone Disease. Small world, Huh!

The vet said that Drago needs to be on calcium and that will reverse the effects. After which Michelle told her that it would only if caught in time and that this was irreversible. The vet said that she better call the zoo with a lynx she saw because now she believes the lynx has Metabolic Bone Disease.

Well this vet training cost us $46.00, including an eye ointment that Drago needed. Michelle is out picking up another UVB Bulb and the liquid calcium. We do know of a qualified reptile vet in Maine, Dr. Slack, but he's a little way off. If we have to we will go see him. Being part of NEARR (New England Amphibious and Reptile Rescue) We did discover Dr. Slack as being a bona fide reptile vet.

Just a question Tricia on the liquid calcium. Would you only give a drop on snout only once a day???

We are also going to get a feces sample to check for parasites as soon as he poops again. It sure is hard holding up that sample cup under his bum waiting for him to poop. I hope he goes soon Michelle's arms are getting tired.

So kiddies, the moral of this story is never trust a first opinion or vet until you check online.

By the way, this same vet saw a large iguana and an anole and asked for the owner to stay on the other side of the room because she didn't want to get hurt by the reptile. Maybe she's a little squimish, you think????????

I sure hope your little one feels better soon. It's too bad that some pet stores are so ignorant (and in this case the vet too) as how to care for reptiles. I got 2 baby wds from Petco both with Metabolic Bone Disease. Neither showed symptoms for months. One did not survive although we did do the calicum shots and everything. My other died this past July. She had just turned two. I think she had some kind of pond accident while I was at work since she was fine just the night before. Very sad. With proper vet care and lots of TLC your little one should pull through fine. I'll send good thoughts your way. You may need a "special needs" viv when all is said and done. My girl Ms. Tude had a viv like this so that everything was more easily accessible for her. She also had mobility issues in her back legs. If you need any ideas let me know.
I had to laugh with the picture in my head of your wife standing there with a cup waiting for poo. You were being funny, right? lol It can easily be fished out of the pond. Either way, thanks for the chuckle. I needed that. Keep us posted.
Char

Actually Char her arms got tired and she taped the cup to his bucket. He doesn't like it much and it's hard for him to move around. LOL

bob

Hi Bob: Geeee I'm not sure I would have paid that vet bill. Well, on the bright side if the vet did look up Metabolic Bone Disease maybe she learned something that day and perhaps her lesson learned will help another reptile in her care. Sounds like she needs to either not see reptiles or join ARV to learn more about what she's supposed to be doing. it's too bad she didn't turn out to be a good reptile vet ... then you would have one close to home and a really good one a little ways away.

It is possible that with proper UVB lighting and the calcium treatment that your dragons cricket leg Metabolic Bone Disease will reverse somewhat. At the very least it shouldn't get any worse now that you are treating it. Since your dragon sounded lethargic (you didn't say whether you thought the sleeping might be stress in a new home or illness related) it might very well still have Metabolic Bone Disease and other issues going on.

As Char said your dragon might need a "special needs" enclosure ... at least while it's getting better. For now that means limiting climbing and the chance of falls. Your dragons bones might be soft and brittle due to the Metabolic Bone Disease and could break easily with a fall or even accidental mishandling. When your dragon is better if you notice that because of the cricket legs it has some trouble climbing branches etc you might put them at 30 to 45 degree angles instead of harsher angles ... just to make moving around the cage all that much easier. Char and I can supply you with all kinds of ideas on how to make a handicapped dragons life easier.

It's hard to tell you how much liquid calcium to give your dragon without a weight. You said it was a baby but ...what size? if it really is a baby it could weigh as little as 10 grams ... I'm betting it's a bit heavier than that maybe 20 grams. If the dragon is 20 grams the dose of 1 mg/kg would be 0.02 cc (20 grams divided by 1000 or weight divided by 1000 = dose). So, yes that would be a tiny drop at the most a day until the dragon has greatly improved.

Well ... some of the stuff you find online isn't much better than your wifes vet experience (I'm thankful she went armed with information) which you are awfully good natured about. It's good that you found Herp Center- lots of knowledgable members to help out those in need.

Get any fresh stool yet ... that cup on the dragons butt must be a real drag .... LOL

__________________
Tricia