"Feel resentful because you wasted all that time on an animal that no longer meets your standards?"

Precisely.

Hey, I am not going to cull anything... I guess it is all relative and depends on one's frame of reference; do not puppy breeders and fish breeders cull? I don't see anyone morally excoriating them (then again, they probably do not come here to seek the opinions of others...)

I think you guys were a bit unfair about my peacock analogy, though!
Just as a lion can regrow a mane.

The nuchal spines in water dragons are a sexual display influenced by testosterone. Would not the animal want to keep them? Ever read Zahovi's theory of "the handicap principle?" (discussed in Jared Diamond's "THe Third Chimpanzee). It suggests that Darwin was right about sexual selection and that protuberances, excresences, frills, spines, etc; are used as attention markers.

I am sure you have heard of those experiments with roosters, where they make the tail 20' long--and yes, all the hens are starstruck... Same principle.

Well, I have no interest in breeding cocks--or water dragons--with 20' tails. But I see nothing wrong with admitting the source of the animal's aesthetic appeal, at least to me.

I was dead serious about the Score analogy, but here are a couple of others:

--there us absolutely no reason why, if there is a G_d, that if one has a happy, healthy conehead lizard, that it is acceptable for that magnificent tail to break.

--or an alligator lizard or chameleon for that matter...

What the ****, I am still ****ed--I thought males were supposed to behave in these guys!!!

Hello,

Running with your own principles of natural selection, I can understand why they wouldn't grow back.

In the wild, it is the strong that survives. When 2 males battle over territory or females, one must lose. During the fighting, the weaker or less intelligent/aggressive fighter is going to be injured. As a result, his breeding that year may be faltered.

In the wild, you ALWAYS want those animals with the strongest genes to procreate. This way, the genetic strength of the species is hopefully inherited by the offspring and that allows the young to have a greater chance at survival.

Now when it comes to other species of animal, like the lion, it is brute strength that determines which male will have females. I will explain.

There is always one dominant male in every pride. To attract the females, it isn't the "size" of his mane that does this, but rather the color of the mane.

Male lions will darker manes will attract more females than a male with a full , light colored mane.

Now once a male has established himself a pride, it doesn't mean he will be holding onto it. In fact, he could lose it the next day if another male, who is bigger and stronger, decides to challenge him. They will fight, and one will lose. The winner keeps the pride regardless if his mane is light or dark. In that instance, it is his strength that determines who wins the females. (He must also display his dominance over the females in order for them to be loyal to him.)

The mane allows males the ability to attract the females with looks, but it isn't essential for him to procreate. His strength determines if he will be breeding.

You also have to realize though that hair is dead cells. The spikes are not. They are very much alive which is why there is bleeding when they are damaged.

Hair and nails are how certain animals, humans included, discard the cells that are no longer any use to us (dead). Reptiles shed and have fresh tissue and cells revealed when they need to do this. Birds molt to achieve this process.

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I'm editing this because I realize I came on a little too stongly there, and I'm sorry about that.

I hope that the fact that your dragon is injured will not keep you from loving him and giving him the very best care you're able to. I just want to make sure that the fact that you are admitting that you now resent him, won't mean his care will suffer - especially since it really wasn't his fault. Water dragons are territorial, and two male dragons housed together will inevitably fight at some point.

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"Let's eat, Grandpa!"
"Let's eat Grandpa!"

Punctuation. It saves lives.

Greetings Folks-

I just don't understand.

He asked if damaged spikes re-grow in male water draogons and we end up talking about resenting reptiles, peacocks and male lion behavior???

Perhaps this is why he clearly stated in his opening post that he wasn't interested in conjecture?

We all keep our reptiles for many different reasons, not one reason is more noble than the other.

If we were true reptile lovers, in the noblest sense of the word, we would watch them through camera lenses, in their native habitats that we contstantly throw money at to maintain; Free from human hands and captivity. ;-)

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Regards,
Dominick
_____________________________________________
"Do you watch too much television? Did you do so as a toddler? Evidence tonight that it could be the cause of learning disorders, like attention deficit and hyperact-Ooooh, a kitty!" - Keith Olbermann

There is absolutely nothing wrong with someone being upset that their "picture perfect" animal has been damaged. Talk to any iguana keeper whose pet has lost part of its tail! Our aim SHOULD be to preserve and care for the animal so that it can grow up to be that magnificent creature we had hoped for. Sometimes it works out that way, sometimes it doesn't. However usually the damage that occurs is due to a mistake on the keeper's part and to resent the animal for it having happened is unrealistic.

Indeed!
Everyone has their own reasons and goals in keeping any animal. Just because someone's goal is different than yours does not mean that they are wrong or that they will abuse or neglect the animal. There are a sizable number of reptile keepers who do in fact keep animals "as a display", and go to great lengths and expense to keep them happy and healthy. In fact many of them look down on those of us who keep reptiles as "pets" and feel that the very act of handling them causes them undue stress and should not be done.
Neither side is the "bad guy" just different ways of looking at things.

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Merlin,
What's Life Without A Little Magic!

I think Typhanie is just worried. She is worried that he will start neglecting his reptile because the reptile is no longer perfect.

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My name is Liz
Do what's best for the animal, not what's best for you.

Yup.

Being disappointed that your pet got injured is one thing. Resenting it for something out of it's control is another. I'm afraid that resentment will result in the water dragon getting only cursory care in the future, instead of the personal care they really need. It's hard to properly care for anything if every time you look at it, all you see is wasted time. Perhaps I'm overreacting on this point.

I probably should have worded my post differently. I apologize for that. I tend to be less diplomatic when I feel very strongly about something. I'll go back and edit it.

__________________
"Let's eat, Grandpa!"
"Let's eat Grandpa!"

Punctuation. It saves lives.

Typhanie, i think you worries are justified though. I got the same feeling.

__________________
My name is Liz
Do what's best for the animal, not what's best for you.

Whoa Nellie!!!
Gee, guys, i never realized I would touch this kind of a nerve! I do appreciate all the thoughtful replies.

If ya must know, I now have:

--A RESCUED leopard gecko with a regen tail;
--A " " ball python with bite scars (although this is cool--acquired at 17," I supplement the mails. The scars really do heal with every shed).
--A " " Greenback frog with only one eye.

To quote the eminent moralist Seth in "From Dusk Till Dawn:" "I may be a *******, but I'm not a f****n *******." (Translation: I really not a Westmister dog show snob. But it would be cool to have a mint lizard...)

The line about "we all keep pets for our reasons is legally true, but I do appreciate my moral obligations. I guess I am really ****ed because of what I said previously: hw such a short, transitory incident could cause such permanent damage.

Btw: I do appreciate the conjectures/hypotheses about natural selection. These were some good, thoughtful replies.

Now speaking of "mint:"

To my mind the most important lesson/question here is the exchange I had with Bery Langerwerf; I sahll post it as a new thread!

*sigh of relief* Good.

Sorry about the negative assumption. You don't know how many times I've seen someone get a reptile or a bird, not do much research on it, not have it act the way they expected, then neglect it because it wasn't what they wanted. That hits a particularly rabid sore spot with me.

I'm glad I was just misinterpreting what you were saying.

__________________
"Let's eat, Grandpa!"
"Let's eat Grandpa!"

Punctuation. It saves lives.