Hi -

I recently posted about Cuff and Link, who came to me as "very active." They had a few habitat changes based on reading what seems to be millions of posts on every turtle site I can find.

I seem to be having a trouble though. Link, is super active. Cuff has borrowed down into the substrate and doesn't often pop up to eat, drink, etc. Because the breeder had not previously hibernated them, nor am I an expert by any means, I'm a little concerned. I was out of town for a week, and the friend looking after them said she dug him up a couple of times to make sure he was still ok...report was that he soaked for 10 minutes, ate a little, and dug back in each time.

It's been 2 days since I've been home now, and he hasn't come up at all...the soil around him isn't disturbed other than Link's play time.

So I'm unsure of what to do, or how to support his seeming self hibernation?

Here is a discription of their habitat:

40+ gallon tank (it was free, no label)- about 4'x2'x2'
2-4 inches of Eco-Earth substrate mixed with a fine bark
Moss at one end, surrounding a ceramic plant plate that is their pool.
2 hides big enough for 1 each.
Biggest under tank heater I could find in center of tank

Lighting:
150 W (from breeder) UVB + 60W UVB = about 80 at warm end, and 75 at cooler end. (My house is drafty, otherwise the lights would be overkill, I think!)
Night: 100 W Flukers Black Night Red Heat bulb = 70-72 at night

I attached a picture, though the viv is a little different now. They decimated the plants, so I'm working on a better idea for that. The night lamp (center) is now suspended slightly above.

Their diet:
4 times a week: 1 meat (earthworms, crickets, or superworms), 1 fruit (usually apple or berries, occasional banana or tomato), 1 vegetable (carrot, sweat peas in pod, etc), and a green (mustard, carrot tops, chard, collard). Link is actually getting a little over plump on this diet! Occasionally, if I'm out of something, they'll get a scoop of Fruit/Vege Turtle Food, or a scoop of low-fat dog food.

So..after all that info...any ideas on Cuff's winter sleep-in? Should I let him be? Make sure to dig him up and get him eating? Find the closest reptile vet fast? (it's winter in MI, and it's about 2 hrs away)

Help?!

-Anna

Attached Images

Turtle tank.jpg (12.6 KB, 10 views)

My first question is "Are you certain of the sexes? Or is that just a guess?" Box turtles are really easy to sex if you're just guessing so far. I also would suggest removing the Under Tank Heater. It's unnecessary for turtles, who rely on overhead heating more than belly heating. The lights are essential for UVB anyway, the Under Tank Heater does little but dry out the substrate. That could also be why he's burrowing though. He may be trying to get down to that nice and toasty Under Tank Heater. Also keep in mind that box turtles are naturally burrowing animals and he may just like it more than Link.

If they are indeed both males, his behavior may be linked to that as well, as maybe Link is the "dominant" one. It's been a while since I've dealt with box turtle social behavior though, so I'm not sure if that would really be an issue or not. Normally I'd say it wouldn't be a problem though.

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+5 bonus points to whoever finds me a job!

"Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines." - John Benfield

They came from a reputable breeder, so I guess I'll trust on sexes? Just curious, how would I check that?

I'll look into that undertank heater...it might be a pain to take off at this point, but I could always unplug it until the next thorough cleaning...

-Anna

Do you know the type of box turtles you have? I have two eastern and a three toe. They have been brought into the house for the winter (yes the eastern's could have been left outside but I was chicken). The eastern’s have buried themselves into the hay and I haven't see or heard from them in over a month. The three toe, will sleep for a few weeks and all of a sudden pop her head up and walk around (she won't eat) they she goes back to sleep. The reason why I ask about the type is I have found that the three toe (which is from a bit warmer area) seem to hibernate less than the eastern’s. When they are outside in the summer, most of the time I am playing the game find the box turtles in their enclosure. So both of theses species love to dig holes and hide. Where are you from in Michigan?

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Colleen

The turtles are both 3-toed. We're in Big Rapids - about 60 mi north of Grand Rapids. There are some reptile vets there, but I prefer to go to Battle Creek, where I know more about turtle proficiency (a friend has had good experience - care, treatment, and affordability)

Being fairly new to my own turtles, am I just a worry wort? I cared for 2 Eastern at the Nature Center I used to work at, but they were consistantly active all year...

-Anna

I've been to Big Rapids once or twice, a real trek for me though. Last year my three did the same thing as they are doing this year. I will actually drop their temperature more in about a month or so. If you check on the Michigan Society of Herpetology site they have a list of recommend vet that members have used with good experiences. Michigan Society of Herpetologists
Hope this help... at least you have some in your area; I have to go to Detroit area to find one. LOL

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Colleen

So Cuff was out and about when I came home from work the other day! He was pretty active, and snagged every cricket that got close to him. He also munched on some greens, got a drink, had a healthy #2, and then went back to sleep!

I also took a moment to look for his growth rings - and it looks like he's at least 6-7. I'll be seeing the breeder this weekend, so I think I'll try to find out specific age. Checked Link, and I could hardly see any rings at all! Either she's just super smooth, or she's still only a year or two! She seems to be picking up on Cuff's mood though, and has been a lot less active.

I noticed one of the worms trying to get into her shell by way of her underarm!? I snagged it out and she has been pretty inactive since...could it have done any damage?

I doubt it. A turtle's shell and how they're connected to it isn't quite like it is in the movies. The worst that would happen would be the worm would get stuck in the turtle's armpit. It can't actually get in the shell from the outside.

As for sexing them, males have longer, thicker tails than females, with the vent further from the body. This is so they can actually reach the female's vent when mating. Males also have a slightly convex plastron (the belly shell curves inward). This is also so he can more easily mount the female. Males will often have red eyes, while females do not.

Also, it's a myth that you can accurately judge the age of a turtle based on the growth rings of its shell. The growth rings are not added on an annual basis. A turtle could grow multiple rings in a single year, depending simply on how much the turtle grows, not how old its getting. The environment also plays a factor, in both how much the turtle grows and how much the rings wear down. Since rings wear over time, older turtles often appear younger than they really are.

__________________
+5 bonus points to whoever finds me a job!

"Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines." - John Benfield

I am aware of this - I guess I phrased it wrong. Either way, I pulled most of an earthworm out of her armpit, and since she is acting less energetic.

Thanks for other info.

-Anna