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Water Dragon Worries :(

Discussion in 'Water Dragons' started by cassicat4, Sep 3, 2012.

  1. CentriRitanni

    CentriRitanni Elite Member

    Agreed. Too small of an enclosure can cause major issues with water dragons. They are incredibly finicky. Pics of the dragon and the enclosure should help.
     
  2. cassicat4

    cassicat4 Subscribed User Premium Member

    Ok, dragon update incoming.

    Checked today - size - SVL 5", STL 18". Would he/she be considered sexually mature at this size then?

    I know the current enclosure is way too small, and that's my fault for not anticipating being ready sooner when he needed it. :( But he is getting moved over ASAP for that reason. Current enclosure is 60g, or 36" x 20.5" x 18". New enclosure is 5'x4'x3.5'.

    Pics, all taken today. If you believe he could be female, PLEASE tell me ASAP as I currently have no lay box/diggable substrate in the current enclosure for him/her to lay.

    Nem1.jpg

    Nem2.jpg

    Vent1.jpg

    Vent2.jpg
     

    Attached Files:

  3. Thalatte

    Thalatte Elite Member

    Congratulations you have a female! She looks like Tai
     
  4. Thalatte

    Thalatte Elite Member

    If it was male there would be darker femoral spots and the neck crest would be bigger. They will become sexually mature at 24in I think.
     
  5. CentriRitanni

    CentriRitanni Elite Member

    XD I was about to say the same thing, just a different name. Definitely a female. She does't look gravid, but she may be going through hormonal issues. Hopefully the bigger enclosure will settle her out.

    Generally speaking, they reach sexual maturity at a body length of 6" or so, but there are always the exceptions, like a three year old that is only 4" long and has successfully laid, etc. Unfortunately with animals, there is no cut and dry "this when this" in many circumstances, and sexually maturity is one of those.

    For what it's worth, I have only even seen one male CWD in person, so if you have one, it's probably female. I know it makes me a terrible person, but whenever I hear people at Petsmart saying, "I'm going to get two and breed them!" I have to laugh... then break the news to them that: 1) they are a lot more complicated than they look; and 2) in all likelihood, you'll end up with two females.
     
  6. cassicat4

    cassicat4 Subscribed User Premium Member

    Haha really? I was not expecting that! :) The presence of pores, even minor ones, made me think male, but I definitely noticed the smaller crest which got me thinking otherwise. And that is why all my reptiles get what I believe are unisex names unless I know 100% what they are. Which I rarely do. ;) This one, in case anyone is interested, is named Nemesis because in the first couple months, she was the most hostile reptile I had ever met. She's much better now. ;) My one vet did tell me it was rare to get a male though, because I believe they're temp-sexed as well? And where they're from, the temps favor female?

    Ok, so this definitely adds a new element to things. New enclosure - what substrate would you recommend??? I was thinking soil, but then read somewhere that it can cause respiratory issues in juveniles (is Nemesis a juvenile still?). I will have live plants with soil in a box though. I also have peat moss, but not sure if that should be used because it has perilite and vermiculite in it...I would prefer a natural substrate so she can dig and I guess lay eggs...the substrate is going in tomorrow night so any ideas by then would be great. :)

    I'm also hoping you're all right, and it is a too small enclosure and possibly hormonal issues causing eating problems and she will get better in the new one. I will update in this matter after she's moved.
     
  7. CentriRitanni

    CentriRitanni Elite Member

    For now, a simple dig box will be fine. Buy the cheapest bag of soil you can find, as it usually won't have additives. A healthy adult in a very large enclosure can have soil, but I highly advise against it as substrate in smaller enclosures and especially with juveniles. I would start with a box, and if she starts eating again once in the larger enclosure, and is healthy, you can add several inches of soil in the bottom.
     
  8. cassicat4

    cassicat4 Subscribed User Premium Member

    Ok, thanks! I'll make a lay box to add to the enclosure.
    What would you recommend for substrate then in the meantime? Reptile carpet? Moss? Something else?
     
  9. Thalatte

    Thalatte Elite Member

    Even before I received Tai she had been to a vet and the store people all said it was male. I went to pick it up and thought looks female to me but if the vet says male I will go wih that so I named her Tai-Shan-Wang which is the Chinese **** GOD of court 7: torture by mincing machine. Then on the fourth vet visit to my local vet I mention that he looks like a she. Vet looks under her and goes your right he is! And now Tai has a very morbid male name... Wish vets would actually look instead of just nod and go sure if that's what you want!!!

    Oh Also wanted to state that a cheap potting soil with no added fertilizer is fine for substrate and no nemesis is not a hatchling she is a juvenile until she grows another inch and becomes sexually mature then she will be an adult. At this size the risk of impact ion is lower as they learn to eat just the insect without taking a mouthful o soil. Also they can pass things easier.
     
  10. CentriRitanni

    CentriRitanni Elite Member

    I use tile and have many potted plants along with a dig box.
     
  11. cassicat4

    cassicat4 Subscribed User Premium Member

    Ok, thanks guys, I'll let you know/show updated photos of what I come up with.
     
  12. murrindindi

    murrindindi Elite Member

    Hi again, at 18inches ToL it`s possible the dragon is sexually mature, females are usually smaller than males, so in fact you don`t have a juvenile, you have a young adult that could become gravid quite soon, and you need to provide for that.
    I agree, a "nestbox" should be set up asap. Keep a close watch on the weight, as already discussed she gained 20g quite quickly, so it`s just possible she already has eggs developing (we should soon know one way or the other)!
     
  13. Thalatte

    Thalatte Elite Member

    Tai is the same size...I have been worried about her becoming gravid what do you look for in a lizard? Will we see the eggs in the stomache?
    A couple weeks ago I thought she was lumpy in the stomache area but then she passed quite a few whole crickets and the lumps went away...
     
  14. cassicat4

    cassicat4 Subscribed User Premium Member

    Yes, I would like to know this as well - how do you tell if she's gravid? I know late stage you can see eggs in the stomach, but early on, are there any obvious signs?

    And what do you guys use for a lay box? Would a plastic shoebox filled with soil work?

    Thanks
     
  15. diehardislanders

    diehardislanders Elite Member

    That is definately a female. Do you have any earlier pics of her to compare coloring? There are alot of dark and ever brown CWD, but dark spots could come on from stress. It would be interesting to see and compare. And re: Murrindindi- absolutely! Definately must prepare for gravid.
     
  16. Thalatte

    Thalatte Elite Member

    I would think the box needs to be bigger...don't they use it as a cave to lay eggs in?
    I am planning to have a heat pad under one side of her cage so she can dig around her pond in the heated soil to lay her eggs...they won't be fertile but atleast she will have an area. So it won't be a box just a heated substrate...is this ok?
     
  17. Thalatte

    Thalatte Elite Member

    Oh cassicat I did notice Nemisis is quite abit darker then tai..is she always that color?
     
  18. cassicat4

    cassicat4 Subscribed User Premium Member

    Does the lay box need to be covered? Or is an open box fine?

    @ Thalatte - no, and part of it is lighting. She seems to vary - sometimes she's a bright green, other times darker. She usually darkens every time I take her out of her tank if my bf is around (which he was when I took the pic)...for some reason, she's scared/doesn't trust him, but he never handles her or interacts with her either. The other time she's dark is if she's hiding/sleeping underwater or under foliage in her tank and I pull her out. Is that normal?

    As requested, some progression pics:

    The day I got her - May 14, 2012 (really bad light, so pic was edited a lot and the color is unnatural unfortunately)
    WD.jpg

    In June
    Nemesis.jpg

    In July
    Nemesis12.jpg

    A few days ago
    IMG_4874.jpg

    And last night
    IMG-20120912-01033.jpg



    Does she seem ok?
     

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  19. Thalatte

    Thalatte Elite Member

    Yeah seems healthy. Tomorrow I will get out my good camera and try to take some shots of tai to compare. I think she is very pretty. I have noticed that tai darkens when stressed or cold...mostly when someone goes to hold her or in the morning before I turn on her lights. She also brightens up the most when she eats something extraordinary. I splurged on horn worms at the last reptile show and I hid them in her cage...boy was she almost neon green and excited hunting them down! Since the. I play hide and seek with her slower foods to give her a bit of an adventure while eating.
    As for her darkening yes that's normal but you shouldn't pull her out of her hiding spots as it violates their sanctity and makes them feel unsafe and insecure. Best to lure them out with food if you need to or just leave them alone til they decide to come out.
     
  20. murrindindi

    murrindindi Elite Member

    Hi, apart from the obvious weight increase her appetite will increase too, you should also offer extra calcium at that time.
    It`s so difficult to tell looking at a few photos, but apart from looking in good health she does look slightly "heavy" as I mentioned previously. Yes, a plasitic box would work (it must be opaque), and it needs to be approx 8 or 9 inches deep, slightly moist not wet, and heated to the low to mid 80`s F, you can leave the top open, or cut a hole in the lid, either way, tamp the substrate down well.
     

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