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Views on sand as substrate

Discussion in 'Substrates/Bedding/Flooring' started by Julie&brad, Nov 28, 2004.

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  1. Julie&brad

    Julie&brad Elite Member

    What does everyone think about sand as substrate. (All types of sand)
    Im a member of repticzone and they all say its bad, which i beleive too but just wanted to know what everyone on here thought!
    THanks
     
  2. Jay DeMore

    Jay DeMore Elite Member

    I'm a fan of newpaper and repticarpet myself. No sand here!
     
  3. MoLdYpOtAtOe

    MoLdYpOtAtOe Elite Member

    Well all sand is dangerous as a substrate and can cause impacton in most reptiles. So I would say yes, all sand is bad. Some sands worse than others though.
    I myself do not use sand for any of my herps. The only tme I may use sand is *IF* I ever get frog eyed geckos. But still that is a major *MAY* statement. So I am a fan of papertowels, reptile carpet, and other safe substrates.
     
  4. MiamiE

    MiamiE Active Member

    well i havent had any problems yet and seeing as though bearded dragons are natives of australian deserts it shouldnt be a problem.
     
  5. KrokadilyanGuy3

    KrokadilyanGuy3 Elite Member

    I like sand.
    I have used sand for 10+ years and have never had a problem with it. Sand can cause impaction, every substrate has it's flaws and being I'm a huge fan of natural substrates I will use sand if it's relative to the animal. I keep herps for many reasons and one is for visual purposes. Having any of my animals on paper towels or newspaper is like having a fish in an empty tank.

    More so, I have use it for many years with great outcomes and I will comtinue using it when it comes to it.
    Zane
     
  6. steel rip

    steel rip Elite Member

    I have recently started to use sand for my big beardies, but not the smaller ones, I think the greater risk of impaction lies with the smaller babies on sand, although im still not sure of it with my bigger beardies, I have been thinking about changing to something else, don't know what yet tho, and I cant stand the grating of the sliding doors when the sand gets underneath it, oh that goes threw me :eek:
     
  7. Dadx2mj

    Dadx2mj Member

    OH boy here we go. Julie and Brad know my views from the other forum but for the rest of you here goes. Sand has proven to cause problems and many times the problems are so slow to show themselves you dont realize there is a problem until it is too late if ever. II believe it may shorten a Beardies life by slowly impacting them. The Beardie lives for 5 or 6 years instead of 10 or more and you think it has died of natural causes but it is because of a slow impaction. Another thing is in the wild Beardies do not live on sand like many think . They live in more of a Savanna type environment than a sandy desert one. What is natural to them is a hard packed dirt and rock environment, not a sandy beach like one.

    I prefer the use of either Wheat Bran or Alfalfa pellets. I lean toward wheat bran because I like the looks of it better and I dont like the grass smell of the Alfalfa pellets. Using repti carpet or newspaper/paper towels is probably the safest bet but like mentioned above I just dont like the look of it and my Beardie loves to dig and he cant with those.

    Just my [​IMG]
     
  8. Julie&brad

    Julie&brad Elite Member

    Thanks dad, you and I both know about sand!! We have shared many arguments about it elsewhere but i just wanted some new advice from this lovely place. Brad wants to put Deuce back on it and i still say NO!!! We tried wheatbran before like i said before, finding there poo is like a scavenger hunt for us, and now that grassy smell of the pellets is bothering us. Still not sure what to do. I dont think we will be going back to sand though!!!
     
  9. venus

    venus Founding Member

    I have used sand for 2yrs with all my beardies with no problems at all. They are not fed inside their enclosures. Everyone has their own opinions on sand and that is how it will always be.
     
  10. KrokadilyanGuy3

    KrokadilyanGuy3 Elite Member

    Asides for young animals, do you have documental proof of sand impaction? Even being a Vet Tech(Med) I have yet to see anything but keepers saying it has happened to them or have seen it happen. Granted I'm sure it can, especially in young animals but in adults properly cared for I find it slightly probable. Feel free to email me if you do, I would love to take a look at them.

    Also, vitticeps are often found is sandy areas and eaten sand is passed through the digestive system. It may not be digestible but it is often passed through the tract of adult animals. 6-10 years is the average life span for these guys so I'm not so sure if sand is part of the cause of deaths under 8 years of age. It could be natural, all I can say is if anyone wants to know for sure take your animal in for necropsy after it passes.

    But like I said, I've used it for many years, including feeding in the same enclosure (Not advisable) and have never had any problems. By the way, I do like the slate tiles, too. Great stuff to mix with sand.
    Thanks,
    Zane
     
  11. Jade

    Jade Supporting Member

    I use sand only with my Uromastyx and my dune gecko, the gecko digs constantly and seems to like the sand. The Uros also dig and like the sand but im trying to move them onto a soil mix, i just havnt been to successful with that yet. the front opening cage is to shallow and the dirt drys, and the other Uro eat the dirt so i had to take it away from him. my bearded dragons and my leo are all kept on shelf liner. My beardies are such messy eaters i wouldnt feel comfortable keeping them on sand.
     
  12. SKULLMAN

    SKULLMAN Elite Member

    i have no knolage of the dangers of sand what is impaction?and my buddy has some gekos in sand is this bad?
     
  13. CodyW

    CodyW Elite Member

    Impaction is when the GI tract becomes blocked or useless due to a build up of impassable material, ie sand. IMO I whole heartedly agree with zane (krokidilianguy) that natural substrates that are relative to an animal are safe if used properly and responsibly. If your buddys gecko is from a sandy area than it is fine as long as the gecko doesn't eat the sand by the mouthfuls either by attempting to eat insects or tasting the sand it should be ok.

    I use coco husk/peat on my enclosures. There is potting soil that makes up the underlying layer but it contains perlite, and after deep consideration I am going to remove the soil due to the perlite. However IMO the cocohusk is safe, even when it accidently gets ingested.
     
  14. Julie&brad

    Julie&brad Elite Member

    There was a picture on repticzone's forum that shows a vial of sand scraped from a beardy's stomach. I dont have the picture but i will try to get it.
     
  15. Merlin

    Merlin Administrator Staff Member Premium Member

    I too remember seeing necropsy photos of sand impaction in the intestines. I just wish I could remember where I saw them.
    Yeah I know thats a lot of help! :eek:
     
  16. Dominick

    Dominick Founding Member

    Rich-

    How about posting the link to "the study". I've lost mine.
     
  17. Dadx2mj

    Dadx2mj Member

    Alright here are the pictures that have been mentioned. I cant not say for sure this first one is legitimate but supposedly the sand in the vile was removed from the Beardie in the picture.

    [​IMG]

    The next two pictures are off a impartation being surgically removed. Sorry the picture quality is anything but good

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    There is so much controversy over the use of sand I just choose to avoid it . I dont think any substrate is perfect but I believe there are safer choices than sand. I
     
  18. Julie&brad

    Julie&brad Elite Member

    Thanks DAD!! I messaged Doug for help with picture but looks like you found it! Well i will say the first picture is a little misleading because i do remember that all of that in the vile is not sand but the majority of it is. I dont remember what Joanavokes said the other was. THanks again for posting the pics, but now you know guys, here is your proof!!!!
     
  19. KrokadilyanGuy3

    KrokadilyanGuy3 Elite Member

    Proof; not so much.
    A few pictures of Surgery/Necropsy and one with a dragon looking at a jar of sand isn't what I call valid proof, especially not being able to see what's being removed. Personally, it doesn't do it doesn't do it for me, however, I do agree that it is a possibility.
    Thanks for the pics.
    Zane
     
  20. CodyW

    CodyW Elite Member

    If the sand in the 1st pic is the same sand that was ingested in the second two I can clearly see the dangers. The granular size is large and rounded making a very loose substrate which can be dangerous no matter what its composed of.

    IMO our herps are from nature and are best maintained in a natural environment, some herps won't reproduce without a replicated 'natural' environment. In nature beardies aren't found on BB sized sand.
     
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