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Savannah Monitor Care Sheet

Discussion in 'Monitors' started by Rich, May 28, 2012.

  1. murrindindi

    murrindindi Elite Member

    My intent is not insult or be "standoffish" with anyone, it`s just very frustrating at times when the same misinformation keeps getting regurgetated as being "factual" when it`s nothing of the kind, mostly just a personal opinion based on what someone told someone somewhere, with no evidence (tried and tested), so even more confusion abounds, which makes it almost impossible to get the most important messages across, as I say, these issues are literally life threatening to the animals.
    I do have lots of patience as I buy it in bulk, but now and again it gets quite low...
    I`m trying dsperately hard to help, nothing more to it than that, but you can`t please all the people all the time, sometimes you can`t please any of them!
    Good that you now inderstand why I mentioned sunlight! Most people don`t see it as supplementation, but of course it is just that, they (Varanids) absorb the UVB through the skin, which is a "back-up" for when times are hard in the wild, that`s what powdered supps are, too.Gravid females will form a large % of captives, the question to jarich was a very important one, and deserved a factual (tested) answer. I hope he`ll provide that at some point.
    The vast majority of keepers and breeders do offer some supplementation at certain times, even though their animals may be receiving some vertebrates.
     
  2. Rich

    Rich Administrator Staff Member Premium Member

    I can't access what appears to be a page 5.
     
  3. jarich

    jarich Elite Member

    Once again, I will say that I have never in this thread mentioned an all invert diet. I repeatedly and blatantly stated that I did not mean that. I really don't care anymore if people feed rodents. All Im trying to do is focus awareness on the nutritional importance of taking proper care of prey items and nutrition overall. The issue you seem to have is that you assume things and then see 'misinformation' whether it exists or not. You project it onto others in a way that was never intended.

    I did take notion with the idea that somehow all inverts are lacking in adequate nutrition across the board. The idea that people can buy whatever garbage crickets or mealworms from the pet store, dust them, and all is well is overly simplistic and in my opinion also dangerous. Why recommend a negligent diet and a vitamin when its very simple to just boost the nutritional content naturally and forego the need for the vitamin? What I said was that my opinion (yes, I did state that was what it was from the beginning) is that with proper care for prey items and selective use of various prey items for a total nutrition, I do not feel there is the need for regular supplementation.

    This is a forum for discussion. If I can't put forward my opinions, stating that they are such, and then discuss it reasonably, without being told Im irresponsible and spreading dangerous misinformation, then what is the point of the forum? Do you think I care less for the wellbeing of these animals somehow? I think there are a good number of people here who can discuss ideas in a scientific fashion, but sometimes you get so zealous with this one particular issue of rodents that you stifle any other discussion. You're an intelligent guy Stefan, so lets work this stuff out together rather than it being a war the whole time.
     
  4. kriminaal

    kriminaal HH Block Leader Staff Member Premium Member

    Can I bring up a question that is somewhat related to the topic at hand?
    Gutloading. Basically insects are just husks that we use as a spoon to feed vitamins and minerals to our reptiles. While insects do have some basic nutritional value, we greatly enhance it by gutloading.
    Now my question is what is the optimum time frame after gutloading that they should be fed before these extra goodies pass through their system? Being that insects have a quick metabolism and it's likely digested quite quickly. They would undoubtedly have some in their system. But we're not going to change their overall biological (right word?) makeup by what we feed them.
     
  5. Rich

    Rich Administrator Staff Member Premium Member

    I keep my feeders gutloaded at all times by feeding them a diet that keeps them gutloaded. Our crickets are fed a diet of varying greens and veggies that we feed our bearded dragon. My mealworms are fed multigrain cheerios, the occasional collard green leaf and carrots.

    I would say that at most 24 hours would be the threshold.
     
  6. kriminaal

    kriminaal HH Block Leader Staff Member Premium Member

    I guess that's the point. That the diet is always available, so they are always 'gutloaded'
     
  7. jarich

    jarich Elite Member

    Actually their diet does truly change their overall nutritional content, so its not just whats in their 'guts' from the food source. The other thing to think about is that some of the nutritional content builds up over time within them, like calcium in snail flesh. As for the optimum, it seems that its from 24 hrs to 48 hrs. Some vitamins and minerals stay for up to 72 hours, but I think a good rule of thumb is one to two days from feeding.
     
  8. Rich

    Rich Administrator Staff Member Premium Member

    One of the issues people have is when they buy crickets from the store and then just toss them in with their critters without first feeding them for 24 hours. There is a massive turnover rate with crickets at petstores and many of them are not being fed before you have purchased them. Those feeders are pretty much low value feeders. If you let them eat and hydrate for 24 hours before feeding they will have a much higher nutritional value.
     
  9. jarich

    jarich Elite Member

    Absolutely right. Most of the pet stores I have talked to only gave their crickets a slice of apple or potato or orange while they were in the store; some literally gave them nothing. As a result, they are basically starving and dehydrated (which is why there are stories of them attacking reptiles if left in the cages too long). Even if you purchase them directly from a reputable breeder, its usually been a couple days since they have been fed by the time they get to your door. Since they have such high metabolisms and growth, its still very important to get them fed, hydrated and gutloaded before feeding them to your reptile.
     
  10. Rakoladycz

    Rakoladycz Elite Member

    As I had always understood it was as Rich says. You gutload unknown nutritional valued feeders and keep "your" feeders fed and grown on nutritional feed.

    Not sure where I read it but the best diet for breeding certain feeders such as roaches and crickets may not be the best diet for gut loading. I suspect Jarich may know more about this. I DONT

    I figured this may just be based on the nutrition you are trying to transfer to the pet. Only example I can think of would be high protein diet and uric acid build up. I have read roaches need a high protein diet or they may start wing nibble-ing, I have read Jarich post that high protein diets build up uric acid leading to gout... yada yada yada. If I knew more I would go further in depth. It is however something I would like to know more bout.
     
  11. jarich

    jarich Elite Member

    As far as the difference in nutrition between gutloading and general rearing of the feeders, I think it usually comes down to calcium. Especially in crickets, you dont want to keep them on a super high calcium diet as it inhibits their breeding and even their growth. However, you want to gutload them with as much calcium as possible just before feeding them if you can. As a result its best, if you are breeding crickets, to take the amount out that you will be feeding the following day and give them specifically a high calcium diet. That way you arent hindering your breeding stock but still feeding a higher nutrition feeder prey.
     
  12. Infernalis

    Infernalis Elite Member

    cage.jpg
     

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  13. Juice

    Juice Member

    **** that thing is a monster. Reinforced like crazy. Looks really good though.
     
  14. Infernalis

    Infernalis Elite Member

    Copied from another forum.

     
  15. murrindindi

    murrindindi Elite Member

    Hi Wayne, do you know where the bad review Daniel`s talking about is?
     
  16. AdamL8

    AdamL8 Elite Member

    I believe that the bad review was something about the print being too small to read in kindle format.
     
  17. Infernalis

    Infernalis Elite Member

    I too believe it's the text size, I was approached not so long ago by someone on another forum who was griping about the print size.
     
  18. murrindindi

    murrindindi Elite Member



    I would have thought it would be easy enough to enlarge the page on the computer screen, or is there more to it? (I`m so forgiving, I would never have complained)... (Too nice for my own good)... :D
     
  19. AjaMichelle

    AjaMichelle Elite Member

    I was just thinking the same thing. I don't have a Kindle but have other devices and it's pretty easy to make the page bigger. But maybe I'm missing something? :confused:
     
  20. Infernalis

    Infernalis Elite Member

    OK, here it is as easy as I can explain it....

    Rather than re-type the book, Each page was scanned and converted to PDF, however, by doing it this way, the file is handled as a photograph of a book page rather than text.

    Example, I can write my name... Wayne, you see 5 characters, a kindle reader also sees 5 characters.

    Now, here is a picture of my name.... me.gif

    In the first example, we see the text characters W,a,y,n & e. assembled together they spell my name, but in text form.

    The second example is "me.gif" and even the most clever computer only sees it as "me.gif" and not the individual letters spelling my name.

    So when the book is loaded into a kindle reader, the kindle reader only sees a series of photographs rather than text, so it cannot enlarge any fonts to make the text easier to read.

    Does this make sense??

    ****************Text above**********photo below************

    post.gif

    Hey Mike, edit my post ;)
     

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    Last edited: Dec 14, 2012

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