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Questions About Breeding.

Discussion in 'Common/Red Tail Boa' started by DSBoots, Apr 6, 2014.

  1. DSBoots

    DSBoots Well-Known Member

    So my motley boa still has a little while to go before shes mature, but shes got a decent gene set and I want to breed her when she's ready, problem is, i have no clue how gene sets work. Nala is a motley boa het for albino/kahl, hypo, and possibly sunglow. Can someone explain to me how dominant, co dominant, and recessive genes all interact when it comes to breeding snakes? Nala may have a few more genes, but I've lost contact with her breeder. I have a picture of the litter she was born from if that'd help at all.
     
  2. CryHavoc17

    CryHavoc17 Elite Member

    Ok so right off the bat: it can't be het for albino and sunglow at the same time. Sunglow is the term used for the two gene combo of albino and hypo. you can make sunglows with her for sure though. If you post the litter picture that would be helpful in determining her genes.

    Im a little confused with how your post is worded, what are her genetics exactly? Is she a motley het albino? Or a motley hypo het albino?

    Hypo and motley are both co-dominant genes. That means that the babies only need to get one copy of those genes to display the trait. Its a 50% chance for each baby to get the gene.

    Being het for albino means she is carrying one copy of a recessive mutation. Recessive mutations need 2 copies to show up visually. So both the mother and father have to pass on the gene to produce a visual albino. All babies she produces will have a 50% chance of inheriting the 1 copy of the albino gene. If the father is an visual albino he will always give one copy of the genes to his babies, so all offspring will be 100% het for albino at least, and the babies that the mother gives the albino gene to will be visual albinos. So het albino x visual albino = 50% het albino babies, 50% visual albino babies. If dad is only het albino your odds go down because he is only passing on his copy of the gene 50% of the time. So a het x het breeding= 25% normal, 50% het albino, 25% visual albinos.


    Id recommend getting on google and looking for some basic reptile genetics articles. Its a little confusing at first but it makes sense once you understand the information. Alternatively your basic high school biology textbook's chapter on Medelian genetics will have the same information. Remember doing genetic punnett squares in high school? Same thing here.
     
  3. EriksExotics

    EriksExotics Elite Member

    I think I confused you, DSBoots :p Nala is Motley poss het Kahl and there could be more genes in her. Hypo is Dominant so she can't be Het Hypo
     
  4. DSBoots

    DSBoots Well-Known Member

    Its making a little bit more sense. Im still a little bit confused about everything. Ill post a pic of the litter that she came along with. 10178141_653663474669700_1470585090_n.jpg

    Shes a motley het for albino, but in the litter I know there were sunglows, albinos, motleys, motleyhypos, hypos, and maybe a few more.
     
  5. DSBoots

    DSBoots Well-Known Member

    Albino is a recessive gene and both parents need to pass the gene down to one baby in order for the albino to show up. Hypo and motley are co dominant, meaning if the baby gets the gene from just one parent, its gonna show. So what does a dominant gene do, and what is an example of dominant? So if she had the hypo gene, it would show as well as the motley? And what can I do to find out if she does have the albino gene or if she didnt get it?
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2014
  6. EriksExotics

    EriksExotics Elite Member

    Motley is co dom, Hypo is Dom. As for the Albino gene, the only way to figure out if she's Het Kahl is to breed her to an Albino or Het Albino. If she's het, her babies will be Albino
     
  7. DSBoots

    DSBoots Well-Known Member

    So whats the difference between a co dom and dom gene? Even if i bred her to a visual albino male, the babies would only come out albino/kahl if she had the albino gene. ok. I got that. Makes sense. 2 recessives make a visual morph. 1 dominant makes a visual morph, same with codominant?
     
  8. EriksExotics

    EriksExotics Elite Member

    Going to send a few links your way in a PM :)


    And I was actually wrong. Hypos are co dom..

    I had Super Hypo in my head for some reason lol
     
  9. CryHavoc17

    CryHavoc17 Elite Member

    Yes. Dominant or co dominant only need one snake to make a morph. All genes sit in pairs. Your snake will only give one gene out of a pair to any particular baby. So a dominant or co dominant animal gives a mutated gene half the time, the other half of the time it gives a normal gene. Now, if you breed hypo to hypo, statistically some of the animals will get the hypo gene from both parents. In the reptile hobby we call these "supers". Instead of one copy of the mutated gene it has two. So when THAT snake is bred it can only pass on the hypo gene. All babies will be hypos, every single time.

    The difference between a dominant gene and a co dominant gene is how the supers look. With dominant genes the supers look exactly the same as the single gene versions. With co dominant genes the super is visually different from the single gene form. You can tell a super just by looking at it. Does that make sense?
     
  10. DSBoots

    DSBoots Well-Known Member

    Its really all making sense now! From the link I read, the only dominant genes are supers and to get a super you combine two of the same co dom gene. Since Nala isnt visual for hypo, she doesnt have a hypo gene, being that its co dom? So at this point, shes got the motley gene which is co dom, and if I breed her with another motley boa, Ill get 25% normal, 50% motley and 25% super? But if Nala is actually het for albino, and her mate is too, I may possibly get some albino/albino motley?
     
  11. CryHavoc17

    CryHavoc17 Elite Member

    Yup. You got it now. But super motleys are not a viable morph. They do alright at first but all end up dying between 1 and 2 years old
     
  12. DSBoots

    DSBoots Well-Known Member

    So in other words, avoid breeding her to another motley. I really want to try for a sunglow. To do that, Nala has to be het for albino, and her mate needs to be het as well, but he also has to be hypo. albino + hypo makes a sunglow, correct?
     
  13. DSBoots

    DSBoots Well-Known Member

    Im starting to understand ALOT more. Ive been doing alot of reading up on this. Now there is one more thing im confused about now. The differences in the two forms of albinism t- and t+. How do I know which is which, and if Nala was het for the t- gene and I breed her to a male who's het for the t+ gene, will I still get albinos, or no?
     
  14. CryHavoc17

    CryHavoc17 Elite Member

    T pos and t neg are completely different mutations and are not compatible at all. So no, a t neg to a t pos will not produce an albino
     
  15. CryHavoc17

    CryHavoc17 Elite Member

    That would be an awesome pairing. You could also get motley sunglows, and motley hypos, as well as all the single genes. If you bred her to a sunglow (already albino) youd double your odds of hitting albinos and all your non albinos would be 100% het for albino
     
  16. EriksExotics

    EriksExotics Elite Member

    To try and make things simplier, All Albino strains are basically different morphs... A Kahl T- bred to a Sharp T- will not combine the two. It will instead make Kahl het Shaprs and Sharp Het Kahls. :)


    As CryHavoc said Super Motleys are not viable and all die at, around or before two years of age. Some of them will twist and scrunch up (severe neuro issues I suppose) and it just looks terribly painful :/ Definitely avoid breeding Mot x Mot at all costs. It isn't worth it.
    If you like the look of them and want something similar you could produce Eclipses ;) Motley x Leopard.
     
  17. DSBoots

    DSBoots Well-Known Member

    Ahh. Its all coming together and makes sense now. So last question would be, if you look at that picture of Nala's litter, can you tell which form of albinism she may have? I have no clue which she may pertain to.
     
  18. DSBoots

    DSBoots Well-Known Member

    Yes, while the super mots are absolutely gorgeous, I dont wanna breed an animal thats gonna suffer and writhe in pain. I think I'm gonna try to get some sunglows the first time I breed and get some experience, then I'll look into purchasing male/female combos. I know a few people around with boa morphs and I'll see what I can do about borrowing a male when the time comes :D
     
  19. CryHavoc17

    CryHavoc17 Elite Member

    If she was sold to you as a het kahl line albino then you have to take the breeders word for it. The only way to know for sure is to breed her to a kahl line albino and see what pops out.
     

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