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QUESTION: LED Lighting with Snakes and Other Reptiles?

Discussion in 'Habitat Lighting' started by Renouji, Feb 23, 2013.

  1. jdandlucy

    jdandlucy Elite Member

    Reptiles require for vit. D synthesis, UV wavelength of 270-300nm, but this is clearly in the UVC range. Their is no herp safe UV lights yet. As for my previous statement, the wavelength that reptiles need are in production. I did not mean to say reptile use. I am sorry for the confusion.
     
  2. Vers

    Vers Elite Member

    Confucious say what? What do you mean there are no herp safe UV lights? Do you mean herp safe diodes? Also, as far as I know UVB exists in the 280-320nm range and D3 synthesis for most reptiles occurs within the 290-325nm range....
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2013
  3. jdandlucy

    jdandlucy Elite Member

    Yes diodes. Every 280nm diode i have seen is listed as germicidal or UVC.
     
  4. Vers

    Vers Elite Member

    Ahhh...That makes more sense. Thanks for clarifying.
     
  5. Renouji

    Renouji Elite Member

    What about using LEDs to replicate moonlight in a snakes cage? would that be problematic for them?
     
  6. Terp91

    Terp91 Elite Member

    I looked into doing a DIY build for a LED fixture for reptiles a couple months ago. Without including UVB in the fixture it'd end up pretty reasonably priced. As Matt had pointed out the price of high power diodes in the correct UVB wavelengths is extremely high (~$7,000 per diode and several diodes in multiple wavelengths would be needed). On the plus side, some of the new diodes have the potential to provide adequate UV levels over a widespread coverage. Over the next few years there's a good chance the price will come down to a much more reasonable level.

    EDIT: Also, most of the diodes in that range have a tolerance of +/- 5nm so nothing rated below 290nm should be used.
     
  7. jarich

    jarich Elite Member

    Im guessing that was a typo, as I know you know your stuff here Vers. Just wanted to make a slight correction, the wavelength for the Vitamin D cycle is 290-305 nm.

    The line between what is considered UVB, UVC, UVA etc sort of depends on who you talk to also. There is no set line as its just a distinction we make for ease of naming rather than a hard rule that is evident in nature.

    Terp91, could you show us any links with diodes producing that wavelength? I didnt know that any were capable of producing that kind of wavelength safely. That would be awesome if they already were and its just a matter of waiting for prices to decrease.
     
  8. jdandlucy

    jdandlucy Elite Member

  9. JoeyG

    JoeyG Subscribed User Premium Member

    well i'll add to this if I may. I don't think it works for herps needing special light requirements but for snakes that don't I don't see any issue with regular LEDs. As an ambient light they work well though not as bright as regular lights but they work.
     
  10. Vers

    Vers Elite Member

    Since this thread has been kicked back up I thought it might be interesting for some to hear what Frances Baines has to say about LED lighting. Here is a direct quote in response to a question I posed in regards to LED lighting for reptiles.
     
  11. JoeyG

    JoeyG Subscribed User Premium Member

    question Matt- so do regular everyday normal LEDs then not emmit proper light enough to be visible as normal day light cycle use? Intersting point , so now I'm curious.. i have assumed they do since my only requirement is to produce visible light...
     
  12. Vers

    Vers Elite Member

    Hey, I was referencing the numbers listed on the UV Guide website, which can be seen here. As for the lines between UVC and UVB (or UVB and UVA for that matter), pehaps there is a bit of 'overlap' as opposed to a cut and dry line...shades of gray, if you will.
     
  13. Vers

    Vers Elite Member

    Joey--I gotta catch a train, but when I get more time I'll be able to try and answer that the best I know how...or perhaps Jarich or JD will be able to help.
     
  14. jarich

    jarich Elite Member

    Hahaha! Love it, UV geek jokes!

    Ya Francis lists it as 290-315 nm on her site. Most of the research I have read says the optimal wavelengths are 295-300 nm, but again that is just optimal. Realistically its probably not that important to be that specific anyway given that there are mounting number of studies showing that the amount of UVB actually required for many species to maintain proper serum levels isnt that intense.

    As for your question Joey, I suppose the answer is...it depends. What are you trying to achieve when you say a normal day/night cycle? If all you want is to give the lumens necessary for say your GTPs to have a night/day cycle, then yes, its plenty. If you are trying for something different than that, then it may take more.
     
  15. Vers

    Vers Elite Member

    Haha well what's a little light talking without a pun here and there. Jarich, I never noticed you live in BK...I'm actually headed to park slope as I type this. As for ranges, I've seen quite a few numbers thrown around in my research as well...I just choose to refer to Mrs Baines when it comes down to it.
     
  16. jarich

    jarich Elite Member

    She is the authority when it comes to lighting and reptiles, thats for sure. Ya, I live in Greenpoint. If you ever want to grab a beer sometime and talk animals just send me a PM. Ive actually been thinking that all of us NYC people should start up a reptile group that meets once a month. Strange that so many other places have them but not here.
     
  17. JoeyG

    JoeyG Subscribed User Premium Member

    well gents thanks for putting my mind at ease. all this talk of the high nm had me thinking for a minute. I actually use UVB for the chondros though but am using LED for the BP and will soon go to all LED as the collection grows. Thanks for the info!
     
  18. Renouji

    Renouji Elite Member

    Ok I'm confused now. So the skinny is? I can LED be used to generate day/night and moonlight cycles for a ball Python without the need for special diodes?
     
  19. JoeyG

    JoeyG Subscribed User Premium Member

    I use them for my ball ptyhons yes, snakes don't need the UVB because they get their needs met by consuming a whole animal. Thus the bones being disolved and digested meet their calcium needs. Just regular old LED lights will work to provide a light cycle for snakes.
     
  20. Terp91

    Terp91 Elite Member

    Unfortunately those diodes would be all but useless for our applications. The effective range of their UV output would be just a couple centimeters. These diodes are the most powerful I've found so far in the right spectrum Deep UV LEDs (the 30-50mW ones). If they proceed up to about 100mW it'd be much better but that is probably a while off and going to take some time for prices to fall.
     

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