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Pheonix Worms Pt 2

Discussion in 'Feeders' started by DwarvenChef, Feb 12, 2014.

  1. DwarvenChef

    DwarvenChef Elite Member

    Looking at The Phoenix Worm Store Home Page , I was wondering what their "safe substrate" was and fat content. I'm still bouncing around the site trying to figure things out but I have not seen this info.

    As always I am looking for a multi bug nutritional system for my insectivorous lizards. I'd love to hear from the small lizard keepers that use these food items. LOL Lots of good info for the big lizards lately but I seem to be missing the little guys write ups. Leopard gecko and the like.

    Are these guys habit forming like wax worms?

    Will I have to deal with hunger strikes awaiting their favorite foods??

    How many are being fed at a time and how are they offered??

    Yea lots of questions, still looking for my books to see if these worms are listed to get nutritional breakdowns (I still need newer data...)
     
  2. Thalatte

    Thalatte Elite Member

    Nutritional value of Elliot's Butterworms selling butterworms for petfood and fishing bait

    I used phoenix worms alot when I was raising zsaasz and grundy and for them I would take one container and empty it into 2 bowls (substrate and all). The substrate is a wheat bran and so far hasnt harmed any of my lizard but one thing you can do is use a large bowl and empty the container into the middle then all the worms will crawl towards the edges and you can scoop out the substrate.
    They werent as addicting to my beardies as waxworms were and they had an easier time switching to other bugs when I didnt have any phoenix worms in stock.

    Another bug you should look into is butterworms. They are larger than phoenixworms but Tai (my pickiest eater) absolutely loves them.
     
  3. DwarvenChef

    DwarvenChef Elite Member

    I have not looked into butterworms yet. I liked the size of the phoenix worm as it matches what I'm already feeding, I prefer a smaller prey item than avg. Any overflow of fruit flies goes in the Emeralds tank and it's fun watching them lick em up :p I found some more nutritional data and will compare the results to see any differences.
     
  4. DwarvenChef

    DwarvenChef Elite Member

    Saw a report on butterworms getting radiation to halt the pupate ability.... Radiation treatment??? I hate that we do this in our own food supply I'd hate to subject my reptiles to it.

    Any thoughts on this or is the report full of hot air?
     
  5. Thalatte

    Thalatte Elite Member

    I dont know if they use the radiation...I was told it was a naturally occuring hormone that was used...So no idea which it is. But will definitely be researching it now.
    As far as the size thing you can get ones that are as small as the phoenix worms.
     
  6. cbbrown

    cbbrown Active Member

    I fed my salamander speckles phoenix worms after he changed into an adult. I noticed they aren't has habit forming as superworms or mealworms at least they weren't for him. He never went on a hunger strike until i fed them to him and at one point i was feeding him the biggest they offered. I've never tried butterworms, but i heard they keep longer than silkworms and you can keep them in the fridge with minimal fatalities.
     
  7. jarich

    jarich Elite Member

    Yes, butter worms are irradiated. As they are considered a pest moth that can decimate hardwood forest (specifically fruit trees), they are only allowed to be imported as irradiated worms that cannot reproduce. It also kills any bacteria/parasites they may carry.

    Phoenix worms, or black soldier fly larvae, are relatively low in fat content and so will not give you the same results with feeding as the wax worms, butter worms or other high fat larvae might. They have a great Ca:p ratio as well. (roughly 3:1). Here is a link for a more thorough nutritional breakdown.

    http://www.timberlinefisheries.com/...content of four species of feeder insects.pdf
     
  8. DwarvenChef

    DwarvenChef Elite Member

    Got a tub of 200 medium "ReptiWorms" same as the Pheonix worm from my understanding. From my findings the only difference seems to be how they are raised and shipped. Pheonix worms state that they worms are fed a wheat based formula and shipped in the wheat substrate. While the reptiworms are in something akin to black stinky dirt. Also many reports of smelly reptiworm shipments not being eaten or spit out.

    I have cleaned off the first batch of 6 worms and fed them to my S. occedentalis yearling Keni, as suspected she pounced on them but spit them out. Only to pounce again and finally she ate one. Not sure if this is a "New" feed response or what.

    I'm thawing out the last few cubes of bug burger that will be placed in some instant oatmeal to make a crumbly wet porage and will transfer the worms to that medium to "clean" them out and see if that works better.
     

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