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Live Prey Ban---Debate

Discussion in 'Feeders' started by Drache Dame, Feb 27, 2009.

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  1. Drache Dame

    Drache Dame Elite Member

    Okay, so let me preface this with something: I'm on another pet forum, and there is a debate RAGING about whether or not live prey feeding should be banned in the United States. People claim that it is already banned in England, Ireland and South Africa. Since I know there are a few people here from South Africa, I have a couple questions:

    1. Is live prey feeding ACTUALLY banned in South Africa?
    1a. If so, How do you feed stubborn herps?
    2. Do you think this ban is a good idea?
    2a. Why or why not?

    These are for general members of the community. I don't want to start a war, I just want to hear things from herp owners perspective.

    1. Do you think a live prey ban would work in the United States
    2. Do you think It's a good idea?

    And here's a little poll:

    How many people feed live prey? Either because you choose to or because your herp won't accept anything else?

    Any input is appreciated. Thanks!
     
  2. nicole

    nicole Elite Member

    I am not sure where I sit with this one.

    I have fed live prey, but lets ask this, what do you consider live prey? Are we talking about the crickets and worms I feed frogs, beardies etc? Or are we just talking about the rodents fed to snakes?

    As far as the rodents, I am not a big fan of feeding live and will only do so as a last resort. Let's face it, I have had some pretty stubborn snakes in here in the last few years, who would have starved themselves rather than eat something f/t. I put an extreme effort in switching them to f/t, but it does not always work out so well for me, lol.

    I do prefer that they eat f/t, it is less of a pain, and also a lot less risky as far as bites and what not. My Wing and prayer can attest to that.

    How do I feel about it? Well it is pretty simple, I have no use for people who do it for the mere show or thrill factor. I think they are a waste of good air. I understand that everything needs to eat, and that is how it is.

    I am not a big fan of watching something have the life strangled out of it, I do feel pity for that, and it does gross me out. Yet, I am not the person who will sit there and watch either. Once I know my snake has a firm hold on the prey and no problems will occur, I leave. I do not watch the struggling or what not. I see no need to. I do check back now and again to make sure things are ok.

    I think some people need to just be banned from having animals to begin with. The majority who use it for show are in my opinion worthless owners. You can find that all over youtube.

    I am not so sure they should ban it here, because that would be a real problem for me and some of the rescue snakes that come in here. I would hate to think that I have to resort to breaking the law just to get a stubborn animal to eat.

    Is it not their right to eat?

    Again, I try not to make a habit of it, but really anyone who has dealt with rescue snakes and such will understand that sometimes it comes down to the animals health, and you have to feed something live just to stimulate the eating process, to get to the point where you can feed f/t.

    That's my two sense
     
  3. MoogleBass

    MoogleBass Kittes are so nice! Premium Member

    No simple as that. Trying to control what can and can not eat. So it really doesn't prove a valid point to ban live feeding. Basicly what I think it is, is some tree hugging hippies that are upset cause they watched a live feeding some where and felt sorry for the animal that got ate. WHO CARES! Go watch lion king, circle of life and all that.

    If you have a suborn feeder your just out of luck then have to let your investment die because you can't feed live? Really a stupid idea.

    Again I will say it was probably some tree hugging hippie, or some other organization.

    Also if this was for the well being of the rodent, why can you still use rat and mouse poison? That is a far worse death.
     
  4. savannahmon181

    savannahmon181 Elite Member

    I don't feed my snake live but my monitor will not eat frozen thawed at all I have tried for a long time. But the petsmart by my house in Ut. Will not sale you rats or mice if your using them for food. And if you lie the person that sold them to you can get fired.

    They can't stop you from feeding your pets insects and bugs live that is just going to far!

    If they make a law on feeding live rodents my monitor will starve and I would be breaking the law all the time cause I love my sav with all my heart and wouldn't give up on him cause stupid people can't deal with live feeding. This is how the animals stay alive.

    Next thing you know they are going to make zoo animals vegitarians because people are so imature
     
  5. nicole

    nicole Elite Member

    Zoo animals vegetarians:D I am sure the lions and such will have no problems with that. I am sure they will love TOFU! The snakes will also get into the tofu too. There you go, here is the new craze, all meat eaters will eat tofu burgers :p
     
  6. MoogleBass

    MoogleBass Kittes are so nice! Premium Member

    I will ask my brit friend when he gets online next time.

    I think it maybe just banned for display I am not sure. Still a stupid law.
     
  7. titus

    titus Elite Member Premium Member

    Not even England and Ireland have an all out ban on live feedings.I don't know about South Africa. But most places even the US if you look the right places have laws on what can and can't be done with any animal. I'm know the US has laws against killing animals (this applies to feeding live feeders too) though their are most likely sub sections that state it can be done under the right conditions. Germany also has laws on live feeding.

    Here only vets can humanly kill any animal that has a spine. Live feeders are only to be used if the animal will not eat any other food, but under no means can you in germany pre-kill the feeder unless you are a vet. Like most all places that have these laws on the books there rarely enforced, but they are there. It's of everyones interest to know when and if they can feed pre-killed or live food, when there is no other choice to keep the animal alive.

    I know in Germany you can be charged for killing live feeders if your not a vet. Though you can feed live if the animals heath would be affected if you didn't. I'm fairly sure the law reads about the same in the US. There are most likely laws already covering this on the books in most states and any new laws made would just be more clearly written, but I doubt it would be so black and white to be an all out ban. Even if so how could it be enforced.
     
  8. savannahmon181

    savannahmon181 Elite Member

    Lol that would be it. I should try it with my snake lol sike
     
  9. Drache Dame

    Drache Dame Elite Member

    I'm very pleased with these responses. I personally don't agree with live feeding unless it's necessary, but you know what? Sometimes it is necessary! A lot of people on the other forum have said that the snake that won't eat f/t should be euthanized! Can you believe that? I keep rats as pets, but we also feed rats to my boyfriend's Savannah Monitor. People find it baffling that I can keep rats as pets and still feed them to something. But you know what? I love all animals, and there is the circle of life. What else am I going to feed him? Salad? Ugh!
     
  10. nicole

    nicole Elite Member

    Oh yeah, the salad is the side dish. First you have to feed the tofu burger, then and only then can you offer up the salad. However in my personal experience they WILL NOT eat the salad unless it has croutons, bacon bits ( the real ones, not the fake) and Ranch dressing. If you do not follow those instructions your snake will not eat the salad!!

    UGHHH!!

    Euthanise the snake because it will not eat f/t. I wonder how many f/t feeders snakes find in the wild? HMMMM, lol.

    F/t was a man invented thing. I agree with switching them to that for their own safety, but there are just times when you just have to bite the bullet and feed live!

    Now you tell all those people on the forum to stop eating lobster, crab, etc. They boil those to death!! That is more cruel to me than the way they kill the f/t feeders.
     
  11. Drache Dame

    Drache Dame Elite Member

    I agree! In fact, I was so tired of hearing about how cruel and inhumane it was that, I explained how rat mills "euthanize" their rats. I don't think they were too happy about that. They then go into the argument that keeping snakes isn't natural, so why feed live? Pets in general aren't "natural". They don't realize it's not that simple.
     
  12. MoogleBass

    MoogleBass Kittes are so nice! Premium Member

    Yes technical keeping pets isn't a normal thing. Most will live on their own with out help look at the coyotes, feral cats and all that. It seems that the forum that you are on just don't care for keeping a pet out of the norm.

    Rat companies euthanize their rats the fastest and most humane way. CO2, it makes for less mess, granted some still pee and poop before they get bagged. Better than doing it another way.
     
  13. Drache Dame

    Drache Dame Elite Member

    The forum is for pet rats, cats, dogs and pocket pets. Now, I didn't start the thread, but when I saw someone calling for a ban, I thought a little education was in order. I explained that they use CO2, and they didn't seem to like that. How did they think it was done? Stupid.
     
  14. Merlin

    Merlin Administrator Staff Member Premium Member

    Ok first off, to be honest, a live feeding ban is basically unenforceable!
    What are they going to do? Establish "The Feeder Police" to follow everyone home who buys a rodent? :confused:
    Nobody is going to know what you do with a rodent unless you tell them.
    Or be a ninny and post it on Youtube!;)
    As for the cruelty factor. If they see a mouse run across the floor of their kitchen are they going to go "oh its so cute!" and feed it cookies?
    No! They are going to go get a trap which slaps it on the head with a metal bar! Or a sticky trap that holds it until it dies of exhaustion or starvation.

    Ask the posters if they eat meat?
    Then suggest that they go to the killing floor of a slaughter house!
    Being gassed with CO2 is MUCH more humane than what happens there!
     
  15. Drache Dame

    Drache Dame Elite Member

    There have already been a ton of posts about eating meat and feeding prey. Ugh. I'm done with that post for now, but I wanted to make sure I wasn't completely nuts. (I'm not, BTW) :p
     
  16. Lucysfriend

    Lucysfriend Elite Member

    LMAO at the feeder police!! That's precious!
    What about all the farmers that have working cats on the farm?? How do you think the mice and rats die? lol
     
  17. nicole

    nicole Elite Member

    ****, that would be bad for me! I place feral cats on farms to be barn cats. If they make it illegal what am I supposed to do with all these cats that eat these rodents?

    Man that could just bite, lol.
     
  18. Rich

    Rich Administrator Staff Member Premium Member

    I was going to touch on a lot of the notes that Merlin hit. That couldn't be enforced at all. I wanted to also touch on the "meat eaters" in that thread. lol

    I know that it is against company policy with Petco to do any type of feeding anywhere that a customer could see it. I am not sure if they prohibit it as a result of any laws, or if it is just a preventative measure.
     
  19. MoogleBass

    MoogleBass Kittes are so nice! Premium Member

    Yeah I had a post earlier about killing mice and rats in your home, with a trap, poison, or any other way. Which I think I would rather get CO2 than have a metal bar slam down on me, or get stuck in a glue board and suffer.
     
  20. Drache Dame

    Drache Dame Elite Member

    It's really just impractical. These people are saying that it's not, but Nicole, you make a good point! I don't think they realize the repercussions of such a ridiculous ban.
     
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