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Lampropeltini Tribe (info Needed)

Discussion in 'Colubrids *General*' started by Murder Serpent, Jun 20, 2008.

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  1. Murder Serpent

    Murder Serpent Elite Member

    OK I know most N. American rat snakes etc have 36-38 chromosomes and that the Trans-Pecos Ratsnake has 40 and is unable to produce hybrids with say a corn snake, king snake, glossy (arizona elegans), gopher/pit, longnose, senticolis, pseudoelaphe etc etc...

    What I'm asking is can say a glossy snake cross with a corn snake in the same way a gopher or king can since they are in the same "tribe"?

    Maybe perhaps a green rat snake crossing with a cal king etc?

    All the references I've read say that this is possible but I wonder if any breeders have produced more exotic hybrids other that jungle/turbo/jurassic common hybrids.

    Does anyone know the exact chromosome counts of these monotypic N. American rat snakes?
     
  2. Murder Serpent

    Murder Serpent Elite Member

    Heres all the sources I can find so far:

    http://www.venomdoc.com/downloads/Utiger_Elaphe_Phylogeny.pdf

    ScienceDirect - Molecular Phylogenetics and Evolution : How and when did Old World ratsnakes disperse into the New World?

    Template:Lampropeltini - Wikispecies

    The Ratsnake Foundation - Split from fave ratsnake thread - what makes a ratsnake [Forum - General Ratsnakes]

    Kingsnake.com - Herpforum - Email Messages

    Russian Journal of Herpetology

    It turns out that none of the North American rat snakes are actually "rat" snakes at all, but "king" snakes, and all but one have been transferred to Pituophis. The king snake group now includes Lampropeltis (kings and milks, which might be split), Pituophis (bulls, gophers, pines, rats, corns), Stilosoma (short-tailed, which might belong in Lampropeltis), Pseudelaphe (rat), Bogertophis (rat), Senticolis (rat), Rhinocheilus (long-nosed), Arizona (glossy), Cemophora (scarlet), and the European Coronella (smooth).
     
  3. caudalis_sa

    caudalis_sa Elite Member

    Things don't always follow the rules. Whether the act of captive hybrids is ethical is a totally different subject (not stating my stance ;) ).

    I know of a recent Orthriophis x corn snake!
     
  4. Brewster320

    Brewster320 Elite Member

    There hav been some crosses of corns and some asian rat snakes.
     
  5. Murder Serpent

    Murder Serpent Elite Member

    Please tell me you have pictures!?!?
     
  6. caudalis_sa

    caudalis_sa Elite Member

    Sorry it was a Black ratsnake cross or "Greenish" rat snake (Pantherophis obsoleta sp) x Taiwanese rat snake (Orthriophis taenuria). Just as amazing


    Ok these are not my pictures! not sure of the photographer:

    [​IMG][​IMG]

    There we go! :D
     
  7. Murder Serpent

    Murder Serpent Elite Member

    I am stunned. Thats the coolest hybrid I've ever seen. Thank you for the pictures!
     
  8. Murder Serpent

    Murder Serpent Elite Member

    It looks like it took on most of the taiwanese pattern with maybe some black rat influence on the head, eyes and maybe tail.
     
  9. Murder Serpent

    Murder Serpent Elite Member

    Can you find any pictures?!???
     
  10. Brewster320

    Brewster320 Elite Member

    That's a beautiful snake, and I looked up some stuff online and I can't find any pictures but I guess the Japanese Rat Snake(Elaphe climacophora), Radiated Rat Snake( Elaphe radiata), Kunashir Rat snake(an island local of Elaphe climacophora), and the Russian Rat Snake(Elaphe schrencki) have all been crossed with corn snakes before. I'll try to keep looking for pictures because I kind of want to see what hybrid between these snakes would look like.
     
  11. Murder Serpent

    Murder Serpent Elite Member

    Find any more pictures? Anyone?

    Yes, the only hybrid I've heard of between an OW and a NW ratsnake was a japanese ratsnake crossed with a cornsnake, but I thought it was nonsense because I never saw pictures and I've heard it was impossible due to chromosome differences.
     
  12. Brewster320

    Brewster320 Elite Member

    I put up a post on the KingSnake.com hybrid forums to see if any of then know about or have old world X new world.
     
  13. Brewster320

    Brewster320 Elite Member

    http://http://forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=1464771,1468104

    I was searching through the hybrid forums on kingsnake.com and that the most I could find. You could trying messaging that user or something to see if he has any pictures or knows people that have some. Although all the searching I've been doing looking into old world rats makes me kind of want a russian rat snake lol
     
  14. Murder Serpent

    Murder Serpent Elite Member

    I know how you feel after researching this subject a while back I bought a korean rat snake.

    Very similar to the russian rat snake (in my opinion) ;) I've seen them crossed with japanese ratsnakes.

    p.s. That link didn't work for me! Nevermind, I found it on my own.
     
  15. Brewster320

    Brewster320 Elite Member

    Its ashame the old world rats (especially the Russians) aren't more common in the US, I think they look awesome and I like how they are up during the day instead of night and personality wise they are comparable to corns I guess. but honestly its getting really interesting these old world new world hybrids and I want to see one really bad now I'm just really curious!
     
  16. Murder Serpent

    Murder Serpent Elite Member

    Keep on the look out for new old world/ new world hybrid pictures. I have my own project in mind....
     
  17. Murder Serpent

    Murder Serpent Elite Member

    Do you know if this guy has a website or has other images!??
     
  18. Brewster320

    Brewster320 Elite Member

    I found out about what the Radiated Rat X corn cross prety much looked like a corn snake but was very elongated and had a very orange background color, although there were never pictures taken because it was a mistake by some one who is devotely against hybrids and put the snake down, what a shame.
     
  19. Brewster320

    Brewster320 Elite Member

    Ya I know, I understand people who are against hybrids but I don't like how the guy just put down the snake for that reason, although if it was a mistake the snakes must have bred with out even being tricked into doing it so it must be a easy hybrid to make like a corn snake X black rat
     
  20. Murder Serpent

    Murder Serpent Elite Member

    Another cool hybrid idea (to me) is:


    Northern Pinesnake x Andean Milksnake
     
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