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Hybrid Spectacled X Yacare Caiman

Discussion in 'Crocodilians - General' started by PrimalBeasts, Sep 27, 2012.

  1. PrimalBeasts

    PrimalBeasts Well-Known Member

    Has anyone ever seen, heard, or possess any knowledge on this species? When I went o the Northern Berks Reptile show on 8/4, a vendor has 12 juveniles, along with cuvier's, schneider's, and american alligators for sale. Needless to say, these hybrid caimans caught my attention due to the fact that they resemble the pure spectacled caimans.......except they were $275 dollars ($150 more than the spectacled caimans). I had the chance to handle one and the vendor was very polite and hospitable, though the information he was given me.......he was definitely trying to throw me a sales pitch.........I also find it disconcerting that when I told him my location (New York, where it is illegal to keep them), he was still inclined to sell me one........... Anyways, to sum it up, the information he provided to me about the hybrid caimans were that the males would grow to roughly 5 feet and females roughly 4 feet with the maximum being 6 and 5 respectively. He also stated that the temperament of the caimans, despite the apparent claims that they are bred to be a pet is false, and that in order for them to be docile, they need repeated handling. He's stated that all of his caimans and alligators are eating and are handled routinely to ensure tractability and docility. Now don't get me wrong, I was VERY VERY VERY TEMPTED to buy one, especially since I was turning 22 in september, but needless to say, I did not get one due to New York City laws. However, the yacare caiman is known to reach up to 13 feet long and spectacled caimans 8 feet with the records of 10 feet long males being uncommon, but not rare. Jesus Rivas, herpetologist that works with the anacondas, has recorded several 3 meter long spec males killing anacondas in predation and defense. Therefore, this makes me wonder, do these hybrid caimans really stay the size of a cuvier's dwarf caiman and remain smaller than both parent species? Thanks for your time and sorry for the long post.
     
  2. justor

    justor Elite Member

    I think it's highly unlikely that a hybrid would be any smaller than either of its parent species. It should in theory be right about in between them.
     
  3. Merlin

    Merlin Administrator Staff Member Premium Member

    Sounds like he was willing to tell you anything to make a sale!
    It would be no skin off of his nose if you got arrested,...or injured!
    I interrupted a vendor telling a youngster that if you kept the caimen in a 10 gallon tank it wouldn't get big!
     
  4. Genko

    Genko Elite Member

    Hybrid/ mixed breed, so called designer animals, inherit half of their genetic material from each parent. It will be the size of whichever parent it inherited the size gene from. (no offense justor).
     
  5. KrokadilyanGuy3

    KrokadilyanGuy3 Elite Member

    Ive always said the hybrid was a loophole to get around shipping across state lines.

    My hand has first hand experience that they are far from docile. Caimans tend to be flightly when captured, and that's the same experience I have with the "Diamond caiman" hybrids. I also know of two that are over 6-6.5'. I have lost contact with the owner and the owners of who bought babies from Mitch back in 05/06' but I do wish I got one when I had the chance back then so I could have first hand knowledge, but I was a purist.

    Basically, I would look into the two animals involved. Both get large, both are generally aggressive animals. Why would that be different when bred together? Experience shows that hybrid crocodilians usually get larger than their pure bred counterparts. Also, I wouldn't risk fines/jail and the animals being put down due to a sales pitch.

    Basically, last I checked, you can not ship either animal across state lines without a bunch of special paperwork and when Specs were tossed into the no cross list, that's when I statered seeing the hybrids. Hybrids for some reason are not regulated by these guidelines.
     
  6. PrimalBeasts

    PrimalBeasts Well-Known Member

    yea......I'm surprised at some of the hamburg dealers. Thing is, out of all the guys selling crocodilians, his were the only ones that seemed well fed and he even fed some of his animals the mazuri croc pellets in front of me and a few prospective buyers. A couple of vendors had dwarf caimans and baby alligators,but all were skinny. I think he's been doing this for quite some time. At least 2 of his returning customers from last year came back to pick up the mazuri diet from him along with a few of his other herps for sale, including one of these hybrids. This guy seems reputable and credible.........but then again. I have no intentions of getting one anytime soon but I was just curious to the validity of this. I know a tigon (tiger sire/lion dam) is far smaller than either parents but that is a rare exception.
     
  7. PrimalBeasts

    PrimalBeasts Well-Known Member

    Thank you for your input, I really appreciate it. I'm not really too worried about the jail time since the likelihood of getting caught here is really really really rare unless if you go parading your animals. There are people here that have varanids and boids that are considered illegal in nyc and even a store that illegally sells them. I'm sure there are gonna be a few people here with alligators, etc. considering the close proximity of PA and their availability at these expos. I'm much more concerned about the health and well being of the animal and, at this point in time, I lack the space mandated for such extraordinary animals. Although tomorrow is the east coast reptile expo, which I'll be attending. Hoping to pick up a 1.2 trio of ackies, and I'm definitely going to be snapping pics of the crocodilians. Always amazing to see one up close.
     

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