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Dwarf Gene in Anaconda’s or any snake

Discussion in 'Boas *General*' started by Colleen, Jan 20, 2007.

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  1. Colleen

    Colleen Elite Member

    Ok I have been pondering this for a few months now. There is a man in the Michigan Society of Herpetology who has a green anaconda who is dwarf in size (no more then 5’ long full grown). I was told it was a dwarf green anaconda. How does the dwarf gene work? Is it something that is recessive and has to join with another recessive to make the animal a dwarf? I know this is how it works with rabbits, when they get the double dwarf gene and all their features are dwarfed. In the rabbit world these animals usually don’t live do to other internal birth defects.
     
  2. MoogleBass

    MoogleBass Kittes are so nice! Premium Member

    Ok, there is dwarf genes or dwarf species. Alot of locales of the animal will make them "dwarf". Retics and Boas are known for this. There are dwarf and super dwarf retics. First Ive heard of a dwarf conda. Ask him of the locale of the snake. It may help you. Im not sure on Condas. I know hoggs are from an island thats why they are smaller. Jamps and other retics are from islands and smaller. Im not an expert on Gentics. I know of a site that maybeable to help you there. They are all big snake people
     
  3. inkman

    inkman Elite Member

    I dont know much about snakes, but read somthing somwhere that dwarf-ism
    is a flaw in the genetics in the animal, allthough some animals have natural sub-breads that are dwarfed for adapting to there enviroment
    but I could be wrong!
     
  4. caudalis_sa

    caudalis_sa Elite Member

    sure it is a green?
     
  5. Colleen

    Colleen Elite Member

    Yep it is a green... I guess understanding the dwarfing of snakes will be my next project. From what I have searched for now all I'm getting is that size difference can depend on lines (breeders) of snakes and the rate at which they grow. Other things I have read is that snakes like the Reticulated Pythons there is some kind of gene that will produce smaller off spring. But I don't have enough info as to how this genetically works to produce dwarfs.
     
  6. KrokadilyanGuy3

    KrokadilyanGuy3 Elite Member

    Get a hold of Bob Clark. I have his number somewhere, but maybe Merlin will have it if I don't PM it to ya anytime soon.
     
  7. MoogleBass

    MoogleBass Kittes are so nice! Premium Member

    Bobs number is on his site, or try Pat at Prehistoric Pets.
     
  8. Merlin

    Merlin Administrator Staff Member Premium Member

    I'll PM it to you!
     
  9. Colleen

    Colleen Elite Member

    Thanks, I've all ways had an interested in genetics and like to understand recessive vs dominate genes etc.
     
  10. BRIZZY

    BRIZZY Banned User

    Ink man i also heard that as well. That people actually dwarf them and they really don't have a dwarf gene, it's a possiblity but 9/outta 10 chances i heard that it's people who just don't want them to grow who put them in small tanks for there whole life and they don't grow because of this. It also brings there life expectansy down a bunch because it's basically neglect to an animal. Not sure how true but i read it ina book at barnes and nobles a while back....can't remember the name of the book at the moment but if i think of it i will get back to ya!
     
  11. Merlin

    Merlin Administrator Staff Member Premium Member

    Putting a snake in a small tank will not stop it from growing. Thats a fallacy concocted by unscrupulous dealers in order to sell hatchling animals that will get large to people who have no capability of dealing with such an animal as an adult. And lack of food will stunt an animal but it will also keep it in a state of semi starvation and it will attempt to eat anything it can, including you!
    There are genetic dwarves in snakes just as there are in humans. Sometimes its just a natural accident in the physical makeup. There are also varieties of snakes that have become naturally dwarfed due to an adaptation to the place that they exist in nature. For an example a small island with limited food supply is not going to support a population of huge snakes. If all there is available are a few small rodents and birds a 25ft snake isn't going to last very long.
    The ones that survive and flourish are the ones that are smaller and don't require as much food.
     
  12. BRIZZY

    BRIZZY Banned User

    Nice!! There ya go.
     
  13. MoogleBass

    MoogleBass Kittes are so nice! Premium Member

    Constrictors Unlimited, lots of big snake people. They would beable to help some also.

    Merlin is right a small tank wont stunt growth. Like saying a fish will stay small or a dog. Ive see 8 ft burms but i know they arent dwarf burms cause the people dont have the 15000.00 for one. You can "maintence" feed the snake where its just enough for it to live but not grow.

    Me on the other hand, I want the biggest freaking snake, so rabbits and pigs here we come lol.

    With retics theres several island locales that dont get big due to the lack of food, but they do stay around 12 ft in captive. then theres super dwarfs. which are really small compared to the others.

    If there is such thing as a "dwarf" conda it will cost you alot of money for it.
     
  14. lizlover5

    lizlover5 Well-Known Member

    I will tell you what it seems like to me...

    I have never seen a 'dwarf' Green Anaconda, if there was one someone like Bob Clark would pay a TON for it. It would not be in the hands of just any person in a herp society...

    Now, when these animals are 'dwarf' and it seems like just a freakish thing (like this) you need to ask how this may have happened.

    I think that it was probably an animal that was fed the minimum food. This can happen to Retics aswell, you actually see it quite often now with the dwarf trend. You see animals that COULD reach big adult size, but people feed only the minimum, which in my opinion is wrong. You get an animal, you should give it a gourmet life right?

    Now, this isn't always true. There are dwarf locale Retics that actually do stay small without having to force them to. This may be the case, but like I said it just seems like it was brought on by him. You should ask what he feeds, what he fed, and how often.

    Hope that helps

    Alex
     
  15. Merlin

    Merlin Administrator Staff Member Premium Member

    Not necessarily true! Any person could end up with a genetic mutation on their hands. Some mutations are even found in the wild. Its just the luck of the draw. There have ben many cases of mutations just showing up in litters owned by just regular people. That is what started all these morphs we have now in the first place.
    Granted if it WAS an actual reproducible mutation it would be worth considerable amounts of money if the right people learned about it.
    Again not necessarily true. Without knowing the circumstances it is unfair to the keeper to make that sort of statement.
    I agree and not only is it wrong but it is dangerous. A starving Retic even a stunted one would be a VERY dangerous animal! However the dwarf retics that are being offered by responsible breeders really are dwarf varieties, not just mistreated.
     
  16. lizlover5

    lizlover5 Well-Known Member

    I doubt someone like Bob would let ANOTHER dwarf animal pass him up and not have him by it. When animals that are usually huge are found smaller, everyone wants one.

    About being unfair on my statement, I said this is what I think without asking the person. It is just what came to mind when a freak 5' Green Anaconda comes up...

    Even some of the 'dwarfs' being sold are not what they seem. But that is a totally different arguement that I won't bring up. I just thought I would mentio what I did before because I saw it as somewhat the same thing.

    Alex
     
  17. Colleen

    Colleen Elite Member

    Guys, I think Sean has a picture of the snake that he took at a reptile expo this summer. She (I think it was a she) is a very gentle and sweet snake, Sean was carrying her around during the expo. When I figure this all out, I'll post something of my research.
     
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