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Calcisand?

Discussion in 'Product Questions' started by IGGYOWNER, Dec 11, 2006.

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  1. IGGYOWNER

    IGGYOWNER Elite Member

    How good is calci sand for mali uromastyx? my friend got some with different colors and a pakcage of glow in the dark calci sand too. i don't think it is too safe for the uromastyx especially when it can glow in the dark? what do you think? and what would be an appropriate substrate for a mali uromastyx?
     
  2. venus

    venus Founding Member

    Calci sand isnt good for anything but the trash. This is from our caresheet that will be ready soon...:)

    Substrate:
    This is a controversial topic. Some keepers say they use playsand, which is what the Uromastyx natural habitat is made of, BUT, they tend to avoid overly sandy locales in the wild, preferring clay/sand or gravelly-loam mixes, rocky outcrops or soils better suited to holding a burrow without collapsing.
    Many different types of substrates are available. All substrates have advantages and disadvantages. The selection process depends on individual likes and dislikes. Play sand is the type of substrate that is use but others include alfalfa pellets, calci-sand, river sand, indoor/outdoor carpeting, newsprint or birdseed. Play sand is cheap, clean, and easily cleaned. Play sand should be placed in the enclosure 3 – 4 “ deep as Uros tend to burrow. Alfalfa pellets are adequate for substrate and have the added benefit of being somewhat digestible. Alfalfa pellets do tend to mold if moisture is presented to the enclosure. Calci-sand is marketed as a calcium-supplemented substrate and is purported to be digestible by the manufacturer. There have been some concerns as to digestibility as there has been some instances of blockages in animals kept on Calci-sand. There are also some concerns in the herp community that the animal may ingest too much calcium this way and develop overdoses of calcium that can cause calcification of certain internal organs. River sand is a good alternative in that it is easily available and cheap. However, if some of the larger pebbles are ingested it may, in fact, cause intestinal blockages. Indoor/outdoor carpeting and newsprint are adequate substrates and easily cleaned. These, however, prevent the animals from their natural behavior of burrowing and should be used in quarantine enclosures or hospitalization enclosures as these substrates make obtaining fecal specimens easier. Birdseed (also known in Uro-circles as Jeff Fisher’s Urostrate) is a new idea for a substrate. As the name implies, Jeff Fisher has been researching this substrate and using it for his animals for the last year or two with no harmful effects. Jeff simply uses commercial wild birdseed that he places in his freezer for 4 to 6 hours in order to kill off any moth eggs or larvae. Word of caution when using birdseed, sometimes the uromastyx tend to eat to much of it, so checking fecal matter on a daily basis should be done.
    -Bed-a-Beast (shredded coconut husks) are used by some with good success, but again fecal pellets have to be removed one by one by hand and it tends to be quite dusty.
    For hatchlings/juveniles under 6 inches total length we recommend bare tank bottoms or butcher's paper. Hatchlings are much more sensitive to ingesting dry, hard material so it's best to avoid the problem.
     
  3. IGGYOWNER

    IGGYOWNER Elite Member

    okay thanks.
     
  4. BRIZZY

    BRIZZY Banned User

    I will have to agree that, calci sand is just for the trash. I would recommend Repti carpet-paper towels or newspaper. I use paper towels for everything except my snakes i use desert snow, but none get fed on it either so they will not digest it. I don't suggest any sand at all. I think it's all not a good idea.
     
  5. joeking

    joeking Elite Member

    or slate or ceramic or shelf liner or anything except for the freakin' sand
     
  6. MoogleBass

    MoogleBass Kittes are so nice! Premium Member

    I see sand is something everyone dont know about. I keep my viper geckos on play sand. Works great, and before you go jumping up and down saying no you shouldnt blah blah blah. Well Ive done my research on it, and many suggested they do better on it than paper towels. I know impaction and all this. Trust me Ive taken that into consideration. I do know of several people that keep their leos and other things on sand. The leo was healthy and everything. The guy took the leo of sand and put it on paper towels. The leo stopped eating and everything. Back on the sand it was all great.

    If your gonna use sand for your Uro, id suggest mixing in some clay, and potting soil pesticde free and add some sand to it, just not all say that way you can give them something to dig into. :)

    /end post rant about sand
     
  7. IGGYOWNER

    IGGYOWNER Elite Member

    okay thanks i will use the mixture idea.
     
  8. BRIZZY

    BRIZZY Banned User

    I WOULD JUST NOT USE SAND!! I personally don't care what you have read or have done with play sand and blah blah blah, your wrong, sand is very bad, when they go to the bathroom it can get stuck to them and cause major infection i know this from experience and i have had many of friends that this has happened to also. So you may go ahead and use the sand but you will have a shorter life expectancy on your geckos or snakes or whatever herp it is you have on it. So good luck and just hope you all get it and take them off the sand! If not i feel sorry for your herps!!
     
  9. lizlover5

    lizlover5 Well-Known Member

    Brizzy, I am curious if your animals were even healthy. With healthy animals they lift themselves up and poop in solid 'logs'. The poop should not be stuck to them at all, and if it is it should fall off and there should be no way for sand to go up. Where did you get this information and do you have proof to show that this is not an exaguration trying to scare people away from sand?

    Speaking, in the not so civilized manner I see you doing leads me to lead you are not as knowledgable as you are trying to make yourself look. If you were you would show evidence (pictures, things a vet told you, etc). But by the looks of it you just kind of talked about what you and a friend or two have maybe heard?

    Now, to answer the first question asked... I would be a little bit leery when choosing substrate. As you probably know there are reasons why people don't use particle substrates such as sand. It is mostly fear of them eating it and becoming impacted, not sand going up their butt and giving them a killer infection. With newspaper or paper towel the risk is cut down to about zero, but you will have a pretty "ghetto" looking cage. It is up to you to make your final decision with which is more important to you.

    I have tried newspaper, paper towel, pea gravel and sand and have only had one bad experience with sand. The Uromastyx scratched it's eye and sand got stuck to it's swollen, infected eye before I found out there was a problem. This was a quick fix, as was the infection. I gave the Uromastyx a bath and the sand came right off, almost like it stuck to the swollen part of the eye that had a little mucus on it. The vet said that he doubted sand had anything to do with it, but just in case I switched to newspaper. I had never had a problem with impaction or sever butt infections.

    Just some information for you from someone who has had good and bad experiences :)

    Good luck,

    Alex
     
  10. KrokadilyanGuy3

    KrokadilyanGuy3 Elite Member

    I don't like calci-sand, especially the colored flavors.
     
  11. BRIZZY

    BRIZZY Banned User

    All my herps are very healthy by the way. Mine all poop correctly. I was just stating a fact of what can happen if you use sand! It's not a good idea. I also now of this from seeing it happen to herps. No not mine personally but my friend had one that this had happened to because he wouldn't take it off the sand. So i appologize for no pics of this but it was about 2 yrs ago. I own enough herps to know not to use sand.
     
  12. MoogleBass

    MoogleBass Kittes are so nice! Premium Member

    Ya...Brizzy...ya... I feel bad for your animals too. If you would happen to do some research and not hear way of the mouth stuff then maybe youd understand. I know what im doing, and its how many others have kept what i keep. If my geckos you are sick cause on sand..ya your wrong again. My one female is gravid again. I missed her first egg and found it dried up. I guess Im doing something right if they are laying eggs arent i?

    So till you find some info about infected butts from sand. I doubt that. Unless the animal is suffering from MBD or has broken limbs. and cant get the poop to come off, but either way. One should know an animal in that condition, needs to be kept under close eye.

    Oh Id like to point out a gecko i dont have, but have read on and very intresting tunneling geckos. T. microlepis. One thing, how can a gecko tunnel on paper towel? Last i knew it couldnt...Thats why if you keep these criters you must use oh no SAND. get it wet and pack it so they can tunnel. I dont think that gecko will sufer the ill effects of sand you say.

    Keeping it on its natural habitat is a good thing to do :) Either way i think i may get some T. microlepis sometime.

    Oh ya i did the same for my vipers i packed the sand and let it dry :) they love it.
     
  13. BRIZZY

    BRIZZY Banned User

    Well sorry to hear that i would never buy a leo from you. I woud never buy a leo on sand sorry!! I just know that it's not good and i won't use it you may do what ever the **** you want!! And if your leo's die, i don't feel bad!!
     
  14. BRIZZY

    BRIZZY Banned User

    I'm also not talking about packing the sand and making it solid either!! I'm talking about people who have it on STRAIGHT sand!! That's not good for them!! They are not supposed to digest the materials in the sand!! That's how they get impacted!! DUH!
     
  15. MoogleBass

    MoogleBass Kittes are so nice! Premium Member

    LEO? where the heck do you see LEO?? I keep my leos on paper. I keep T. fasciata, carrot tailed, or viper gecko on sand. I said " I do know of several people that keep their leos and other things on sand. The leo was healthy and everything. The guy took the leo of sand and put it on paper towels. The leo stopped eating and everything. Back on the sand it was all great." Never said i kept my leos on it. Use your eyes man.

    Oh ya dont curse. its not allowed

    Ill use the edit button.
    There are alot that are kept on sand and never have an impaction problem. Alot in the wild do too,do some research.
     
  16. IGGYOWNER

    IGGYOWNER Elite Member

    okay well then i will keep it on the sand just i will change it from calcisand to normal sand and i will pack it down. thanks.
     
  17. joeking

    joeking Elite Member

    Just remember that if you keep geckos on sand or any loose substrate you have the following risks:

    http://homepage.mac.com/exoticdvm/reptile/PhotoAlbum181.html[Link]http://homepage.mac.com/exoticdvm/reptile/PhotoAlbum181.html[/Link]
    http://www.avimedia.co.uk/other/necropsy1.jpg[Link]http://www.avimedia.co.uk/other/necropsy1.jpg[/Link]

    If you think that's ok, then go ahead. Otherwise I'd suggest something safer and with the uro I'm not really familar with their background so I really don't know but I'd always go with a safer bet...and don't they like arid environments? I don't think anything full of moisture like clay or potting soil would be a good idea.
     
  18. BRIZZY

    BRIZZY Banned User

    Thanks!! I do agree guys!!
     
  19. MoogleBass

    MoogleBass Kittes are so nice! Premium Member

    You must have not listened either joeking...Ive done my research, I know the chances. They arent leos, they are viper geckos. There are alot of geckos and lizards you can keep on and safely. Some use sand. bark and potting soil for thier substrate for some of their geckos. I know sand is bad for somethings yes, but if you know what your doing. Feed the geckos in a glass ash tray, crickets dont get out of that. nor do meals.

    Clay isnt full of moisture, once it dries. If you mix in some sand, and some potting soil, youll have some hard stuff. I know, Ive landscaped for 8 years of my life.

    I guess all who use sand are in the wrong for doing it, but hey if they have success, they must be on to something.

    If I really wanted Id go get some nice clay, and use it in my leos tank, but thats to much weight.

    IGGY, if you use the sand remeber oonce it dries and you sift for poop you break it up. Like a sand castle. Happens with my viper geckos tank, and I just respray.
     
  20. venus

    venus Founding Member

    ***ADMIN NOTE.....Members need to remember everyone has different opinions and experiences. Lets keep the thread clean and not judgemental.***
     
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