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Bolivia Bans Circuses from Using Animals

Discussion in 'Reptile Law - Legal News' started by zaroba, Feb 17, 2011.

  1. zaroba

    zaroba Elite Member

    i know this isn't relating to reptiles. but it is relating to animal rights groups forcing their opinions on those around them instead of ignoring things that don't concern them and going on with their lives. instead of trying to fix the problem so the animals live in better conditions, they just get them banned. possibly ruining businesses in a time that is already hard and possibly destroying culture that has been around for hundreds of years.


    Bolivia bans all circus animals | World news | guardian.co.uk
     

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  2. Merlin

    Merlin Administrator Staff Member Premium Member

    In all honesty, I can see where they are coming from! I remember watching an undercover report of circuses and the way that that animals were treated. When they failed to behave as the "trainer" and I use the word loosely, wished; they were hit with clubs and even used shock rods to get them in line. The focus were the elephants and the way that they were treated.
    Often resulting in the animal breaking free and running a muck, usually ending in it being shot!
    And in an industry which by its very nature moves from area to area, even country to country, laws and enforcement are pretty much non-existent
     
  3. mld

    mld Subscribed User Premium Member

    I refuse to go to a circus or send a child to a circus!
     
  4. Merlin

    Merlin Administrator Staff Member Premium Member

    Yeah everytime I am at an event where they have elephant rides and put children up on them, I think about the videos of the elephants freaking and going rampaging thru town, with the riders on their backs!
     
  5. Merlin

    Merlin Administrator Staff Member Premium Member

  6. mld

    mld Subscribed User Premium Member

    Glad they are now in better living conditions!
     
  7. Dragonflies

    Dragonflies Banned User


    I don't think you'll find much sympathy for those circuses, most of us will likely be on the side of the "animal rights groups forcing their opinions on those around them instead of ignoring things that don't concern them and going on with their lives".

    It isn't a problem that can be fixed, it is impossible for a circus to keep wild animals in humane conditions if for no other reason than, they don't have the space.

    Definitions of cruelty have changed over hundreds of years, if a "culture" needs to keep animals in conditions that are not socially acceptable, in order to survive, then perhaps it shouldn't survive.
    Would you be happy to have cannibals living next door to you? Was it fair to destroy that culture just because they were eating our missionaries?

    In fact, if you take the time to do a little research, you'll see that there are plenty of circuses around the world that are evolving and proving that their culture does not need animal acts in order to survive.
     
  8. Rich

    Rich Administrator Staff Member Premium Member

    I too am not a circus fan and have also seen several shows on how the animals are caged and treated. The circus life for these animals is horrendous and deplorable.
     
  9. Merlin

    Merlin Administrator Staff Member Premium Member

    but that's the deal! It does concern them and should concern anyone who considers living creatures as more than just property to do with as you will.
    Bullfighting is a part of a "culture", but it is cruel, inhumane, unnecessary, and simply a senseless display of macho bravado.
    Whenever I see news footage of the bulls jumping the fence and wreaking havoc,...I cheer for the bull!
     
  10. mld

    mld Subscribed User Premium Member

    Me too! When I was in Spain a lot of the crew went to the bull fights, I would rather explore the place than watch a bull be put in such an awful position and eventually kill the animal in the end. Makes me sick.
     
  11. zaroba

    zaroba Elite Member

    not meaning to incite an arguement, but i find some of your responses a bit odd.

    i get the feeling that you guys believe that all circuses are bad and that its normal for them to abuse animals, thus you feel that animals shouldn't be used in any circuses. i'm sorry, but is this not the exact same type of trap that PETA uses to rally anti-reptile supporters? basically showing bad stuff and blowing it out of proportion to make people think its a normal occurrence so they can then propose new laws in an attempt to get reptile ownership banned or limited.

    yea, its easy to find videos of circuses mistreating animals.
    its also easy to find videos of reptile abuse (remember the U.S. Global Exotics videos?). does this mean its normal? no.
    when it happens to reptiles and people try to get them banned under the accusation that its a normal occurrence, everybody jumps into defense of reptiles to prove that its not normal. we educate the misinformed and try our hardest to undo the lies and misinformation that PETA and the HSUS spread in their attempts to get reptile ownership banned, and even fight the laws that do get proposed.

    so why is it that you guys seem to have fallen into exactly that trap when it comes to circus animals?
    do you honestly believe that every single circus in the entire world abuses every single animal they have?
     
  12. Dragonflies

    Dragonflies Banned User

    I'm sure you're not trying to incite an argument. We all have varying opinions with regards to circuses and animals, and the rights and wrongs of them..
    My personal opinion is that circuses don't have the facilities to keep their animals in a way that they should be kept. Moving around all the time is stressful, and space is limited. I don't necessarily believe circuses with animals are cruel, but I do think they are wrong in this day and age.
    There are plenty of circuses around the world that don't have animals, alternative circus is increasing in popularity. Not having animals mean that theses circuses can entertain smaller and more remote communities.


    As you can see, I don't think all circuses are bad.

    There are several circus schools within 20 miles of where I live, we have even taken our daughter to one of them.
    None of them have animals.
     
  13. Merlin

    Merlin Administrator Staff Member Premium Member

    Exactly! Consider the living conditions of the animals. The big cats spend their lives in cages about the size of a chevy van! Pacing from side to side, some so cramped that they rub the fur off the end of their tails from turning around. And the elephants spend theirs tied to a post. Nowhere to hide and de-stress. No big roomy cages to relax and do what they would normally do. And these conditions are not as isolated as you seem to think.
    Take a walk back in the animal area of most circuses in THIS country and see what you see!
    And add in the stress of constantly being jostled from place to place every few days, then turned out in front of a crowd of noisy people and forced to do "tricks" for the crowds amusement. Ajnd if they don't behave properly, then they are hit.
    I have no issue with the animals being in captivity, as long as they are respected and treated properly.
    The fact of the matter is that these deplorable conditions exist. And by the very nature of circuses are virtually impossible to do anything about. If they get in trouble at one place they just pack up and move somewhere else.
     
  14. zaroba

    zaroba Elite Member

    i do agree with that completely.
    i was going to edit my post but, lol, definitely wasn't fast enough.

    anyway, i do believe that everybody is entitled to their own opinions regarding the matter and is free to post them. as opinions are a matter of ones own preference, i will not think less of anybody due to their belief's and hope nobody will think i'm attacking them due to their beliefs.
     
  15. Rich

    Rich Administrator Staff Member Premium Member

    My issue with circuses is the housing. We advocate for the largest housing anyone can provide for their animals. Circuses simply can't provide adequate housing and the animals suffer greatly as a result.
    Daily we encounter people on reptile websites who house their adult iguanas in 55 gallon fishtanks or something else that is not of appropriate size and we all try to get them to upgrade because the iguana is the one suffering. Unfortunately that is exactly how the circus animals are being housed.
     
  16. zaroba

    zaroba Elite Member

    i can't imagine it would be hard to solve many of the problems with circus animals while still maintaining the ability to travel.

    for caging, a semi trailer or shipping container could provide a 52ft x 8ft x 12ft of space and still be mobile. still not ideal, but it would be greatly larger then the small cages that are often said to be used. although it still wouldn't work for elephants.

    to solve the constant travel and stress issue, a rest period of a week or month every x shows could work. like require a circus to have a headquarters somewhere that can provide adequate space to let the animals relax and unwind.

    both of the above, while hard to implement, would solve the animal rights groups issue of housing and stress while still allowing the circuses to keep the animals and spectators to see them. it's more of a win-win situation then just banning them completely which would only be a benefit to the animal rights groups.

    like with the snakes in florida. ban them from the country to solve the problem but hinder everybody else, or find a more beneficial solution that solves the problem *and* still lets people happily own snakes if they want to.



    i am all for respecting people's desire to preserve culture (which is the only reason i brought it up in the first post), but as time's change, people must adapt and figure out a means to maintain that cultural element while following the belief's that society has at the time.
     
  17. Dragonflies

    Dragonflies Banned User

    I doubt that either of your 'solutions' would satisfy "the animal rights groups issue of housing and stress". Nor would they satisfy me, and I suspect, most people.
    "... while still allowing the circuses to keep the animals and spectators to see them.", not very scientific I know, but if you look at the number of individuals who have posted in this thread, only 20% (that's you) think circuses should have animals. That's a significant majority that don't want animals in circuses.

    "it's more of a win-win situation then just banning them completely which would only be a benefit to the animal rights groups."
    Perhaps you could explain what you mean by "win-win", and "benefit to the animal rights groups". I am not, neither do I belong to animal rights group, I'm just one of the majority of people who finds it socially unacceptable to have animals in circuses. Your suggestion that your 'solutions' would benefit anyone, doesn't make any sense.
    Not having animals in a circus is a win-win for the animals, after all, that's what this is all about, animal welfare, and the animals welfare is best served by not having them in a circus.
     
  18. zaroba

    zaroba Elite Member

    lol, sorry, but if you really want to get into 'animal welfare' then one could go on about peta's desire to eliminate all animal usage and preservation of animal rights.

    i just find it odd that everybody is concerned about the animals in circuses, and even happy to see them banned but when the same things are attempted with reptiles, everybody fights it. somewhat hypocritical unless you think different animals deserve different treatment.




    but, oh well. we should just agree to disagree and move on.
    we could debate this for a year, and even if we did eventually agree with each other, it'd really be of no use.
     
  19. Dragonflies

    Dragonflies Banned User

    You got that right. LOL Carrying on would make neither of us hear any better. :)
     
  20. Merlin

    Merlin Administrator Staff Member Premium Member

    Actually you are comparing apples and oranges. Those who keep reptiles can (or rather should) provide the proper housing and care for them. This is just not a feasable thing with circuses.
    Unless they want to by each animal an RV.
    I don't pack up all my animals every week and move to another location.
     

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