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the cedar and pine |
| This is what our member has to say: At the pet store I work at all the desert herps are on it and I've never seen any of em get impacted. And these ... |
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04-06-2006, 11:12 PM
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At the pet store I work at all the desert herps are on it and I've never seen any of em get impacted. And these are usually jueviniles.
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There are two types of impaction. One is where something large is swallowed and causes an immediate blockage, the other, and this is the case with sand, is where the stuff builds up over time gradually causing a blockage as it accumulates.
Calci sand, contrary to what the package says, does not completely digest. And the stores use it because they are trying to sell it.
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04-06-2006, 11:33 PM
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Well if the calci sand doesn't work, What would you put a desert animal on?
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04-06-2006, 11:46 PM
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It would depend on what animal you were talking about. Lots of people believe that Bearded Dragon should live on sand since they are a desert dweller but the ground there is really hard packed dirt and rock. Not sand! Because the animal can't get away from it anything that poses a risk is greater since it has no choice. My dragon lives on tile.
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04-07-2006, 03:48 AM
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Tile, carpet, slate rocks, shelf liner, pretty much anything that can't be eaten either accidentally or intentionally.
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04-08-2006, 10:58 PM
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Well then what would you do for a burrowing reptile? They live on all kinds of substrates in the wild, so whats so different about buying it from a pet store?
I understand your guy's concern, but I kind of think its like making your kid wear a helmet all the time.
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04-08-2006, 11:09 PM
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As a rabbit breeder for over 15 years, I never used cedar. Now that I think about it I didn't use Cedar when I was raising mice either. Like everyone else said it was because of the fumes that could result in respiratory problems. It wasn't recommended by the rabbit breeder associations either. I would use pine in next boxes as an absorbent.
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04-09-2006, 12:36 PM
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Well then what would you do for a burrowing reptile? They live on all kinds of substrates in the wild, so whats so different about buying it from a pet store?
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Because no where in the wild is there such a thing as calci sand. Its a man made product.
There are some herps that should be housed with soil or sand and they are adapted to dealing with it. But who's to say that even these animals don't occassionally suffer from impaction even in the wild. The problem, as Hide Clyde stated, is that when most people think "desert reptile" immediately loose sand dunes come to mind. Very few animals actually live on such a surface. If you think about it, on loose sand, you will find no cover unless it is a burrowing animal that can dive beneath the sand. This means that they would spend their entire lives exposed.
Most "desert" reptiles live on rocky outcrops and hardpacked soil.
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I understand your guy's concern, but I kind of think its like making your kid wear a helmet all the time.
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Yes and just like a parent, as a keeper, you have taken on the the responsibilty to provide the safest possible environment for your pet. This animal's life and safety are in your hands.
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04-09-2006, 12:59 PM
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To take a step back to the topic of pine. There is a plethora of evidence that using pine for the cage of a reptile is safe. Think about all the cages which are really just pine / spruce / epoxy boxes. Plywood and standard construction lumber (2x and 1x stock) is usually pine and spruce or a combination of the two you have to pay a premium not to have common conifers. How can you write off pine as toxic in light of this which I am sure you knew just had slipped the mind?
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04-09-2006, 01:14 PM
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How can you write off pine as toxic in light of this which I am sure you knew just had slipped the mind?
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As a construction material pine and even cedar can be safely used. You are going to seal it anyway.
The problem lies with the shavings which due to having a large surface area causes them to emit a great deal of fumes from the natural resins.
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05-07-2006, 10:44 PM
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yeah he's right why don't you ask a scientist I'm sure they could prove it. And just like the kid who wont wear the helmet is it that hard not to buy cedar? This is beginning to remind me of the conversations my bfs brother has who is a doctor. So many pregnant people tell the doctors that they're feeding their babies sugar and carnation milk as formula and after the doctor says cream and sugar is not a good formula everyones answer is the same "But it never hurt me" meanwhile the person is obeese has heart problems and has a kid with another kid with ADD...Why bother risking it?
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