Hello Michael,

I was not sure if that was Mario or not. Although I have not corresponded with him before, I know of him. So, no, we would not know each other. My only time in the Philippines was in the mid 1980’s. Sorry if I came off as aggressive, but some questionable statements were posted and its presentation was suspicious.
Yes, people that research Varanus spp. are small in number especially when compared with those that study other reptiles. Almost all of the information is out in the open, in publications.

Yes they have bred them, even one is a successful breeding.
Varanus.nl forum / Info
But this is what you have written:
There was an earlier hatching of this species, in 1994 at the Dallas Zoo, but it did not survive.

Daniel Bennett's and Walter Auffenberg's publications, both scientific and otherwise have been the best source of information, among others.

If the following, does not give the strong appearance that they are for sale and if it does not come off as a sales pitch or 'business oriented', I do not know what does:
Now, above you wrote: 'help in the fight to conserve olivaceus in captivity' is a bit different than 'conservation', which is defined as: 'a careful preservation and protection of something; especially : planned management of a natural resource to prevent exploitation, destruction, or neglect'. Conservation implies planned management of a natural resource- something in nature- not in captivity, unless it entails reintroduction.

There were two Varanus olivaceus that came through the pet trade here from the Philippines with CITES documentation and they went to a dealer- not a zoo or anyone with any experience with Varanus spp.. I am not sure if they came from your zoo or not, but if they were not, someone else in the Philippines was able to obtain CITES export permits for them.

I sincerely congratulated you on your zoos successful breeding of this species and I think it is truly fantastic what you have accomplished. Very few people are successful at breeding any monitor, especially this species. I just took issue with some of the information given and at the way the information was presented. This is just not what I think:
This person thinks they will be available also.

About myself, I am a herpetological researcher, who has a specific interest in Varanus spp. and has kept them off and on for the past ca. 20 years. Daniel should know me; although we have not met, we have had limited correspondence and he invited me over there to his research site.

In your most recent post:
That is the good stuff. That is conservation.

I don't know whether or not you know the answer to this or not, but what is the Philippine government's objection to declaring this a CITES I species when it clearly qualifies for CITES I protection and they have the power and the documentation (thanks to Daniel Bennett's studies) to have it listed under Appendix I?

Cheers,
Michael

This IS a very interesting, educational discussion!! I'm pleased to see that you've been able to keep it civilized in order to clear up the misunderstandings.
(Too often on forums ANY critique is taken FAR too emotionally and the threads have to be closed because of hurt feelings.) Nice to see that this one has been conducted with professionalism and distance.

I would also like to congratulate Herpaworld on your breeding and conservation efforts for these beautiful species. Hopefully, the Phillipine government will be able to set aside more protected land areas so that your offspring can someday be re-introduced to their natural habitat. In the meantime, I think it's great to build up captive-bred populations of these beauties... since there may soon be no wild ones left. (Between the illegal collection, habitat destruction and the fact that this is a culinary delicacy... I hope other zoos will be able to learn from your breeding experience and keep the species in existence.)

I, too, would like to know why they are not listed as CITES I. (???)

__________________
Andrea

Hello,

I am actually enjoying this discussion as well. It is very informative. Herpaworld, (I would call you Michael but I think it might get confusing.) feel free to link in this thread to information that supports your posts.

I believe Michael_C's post was aimed at the misleading aspect of the initial post.

I understand you have the largest and MOST successful breeding project going, but from what has been posted, you aren't the only ones that have ever bred these animals in captivity. Michael was making that known for those of us, as well as you, that may have not known otherwise. (I am ignorant when it comes to this species, so all of this information is very pertinent and informative.)

__________________

I will also mention that I was not aware of Avilon Zoo having ever had any captive-bred babies before Michael stated it. After conversing with my boss, Mario Lutz, the owner of Herpaworld, it turns out that Avilon has produced one baby.

I had thought Mario said we were the only ones who had ever had a baby, but he had only said that "we are the only people with a successful breeding program," which can easily be considered true. Hopefully more and more organizations will begin to breed this species in the future with much more consistancy.

Thanks for the input michael!

I came down rather hard initially, because I thought you knew (mistaken identity). I just happened to catch the post after posting some pictures on the 'Field Herping' subforum of a recent expedition that I just returned from last week; I have not been a regular visitor to this forum.

The first hatching at the Dallas Zoo is documented in the following reference:

Card 1994. Double Clutching Gould's (Varanus gouldii) And Gray's Monitor (Varanus olivaceus) At The Dallas Zoo. Herpetological Review 25 (3). p. 111:124.

This was the hatchling that did not survive long.

Scientific publications are generally available from universities through the ILL (Inter-Library Loan) system, if they do not have it on hand or through a scientific institution if you have a working association with them.


Cheers,
Michael

I was contacted by a user named Daniel Bennett and was asked to reopen this thread.

So long as this thread remains friendly, it will remain open. I know Daniel wants to make a point in the thread, which is why I am adding the disclaimer.

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I am in no way associated with Herpaworld, the Paradise Reptile Zoo, Mario Lutz or any of their activities. I never have been and I have no intention of doing so in the future. This isn't the first time I have had to write disclaimers about this, a similar disclaimer was published in Sauria magazine in response to an article that included my name. Mr Lutz is very well aware that I strongly object to my name and my projects being used in association with his. For further information please see Mampam Conservation - Disclaimer-Mario Lutz, herpaworld, paradise reptile zoo
Thanks
Daniel Bennett

Wow this is fascinating. I can't believe I missed this thread the first time around.

From reading this, I'd really like to do some research on it myself. Aside from the links to the zoos listed, do any of you know where I can get the most reliable information on the Varanus olivaceus and the breeding projects they are involved in?

__________________
"Let's eat, Grandpa!"
"Let's eat Grandpa!"

Punctuation. It saves lives.

Here is some reliable information on Varanus olivaceus:

Auffenberg, W. 1978b. Gray’s Monitor Lizard- Status survey. World Wildlife Yearbook. 1977-1978: 129-131.

Auffenberg, W. 1979b. A monitor lizard in the Philippines. Oryx 15(1):38-46

Auffenberg, W. 1979c. Research on monitor lizards. Tiger Paper 6(4):20-21

Auffenberg, W. 1979d. The Butaan: World’s Rarest Lizard? Topic, Philippines, January-February: 14-16

Auffenberg, W. 1980b. The Butaan: World’s Rarest Lizard? Wildlife ’80. The World of Conservation Yearbook (edited by Nigel Sitwell). Grolier Enterprises Corp. London: 70-75

Auffenberg, W. 1988. Gray’s Monitor Lizard. University Presses of Florida, Gainesville. 419pp.

Banks, C. & M. Vincent. 2007. An in situ Conservation for the Threatened Gray’s Monitor, Varanus olivaceus. Mertensiella 16: 91-94

Bennett, D. 2001b. Gray’s Monitor Lizard on Polillo Island, Philippines. Reptilia 17:34-38

Bennett, D 2003a. Abstracts: Gray’s Monitor Lizard. pl..IN: Proceedings of the 27th International Herpetological Symposium on Captive Propogation and Husbandry, September 3rd- September 6th, 2003. 20pp

Bennett, D., Hampson, K., and V. Yngente. 2001. A Noose trap for catching a Large Arboreal Lizard, Varanus olivaceus. Herpetological Review 32(3): 167-168

Bennett, D. 1998. Monitor Lizards. Natural History, Biology & Husbandry. Edition Chimaira. Frankfurt am Main. 211-214

Card, W. 1995d. Gray’s Monitor Lizard (Varanus olivaceus) at the Dallas Zoo. Reptiles 3(5): 78-85

De Lisle, H.F. 1996. Natural History of Monitor Lizards. Krieger, Malabar (Florida)

Eidenmüller, B. 2007. Monitor Lizards. Natural History, Captive Care & Breeding. Edition Chimaira, Frankfurt a. M. 99-100

Gaulke, Maren 1991. Systematic relationships of the Philippine water monitors as compared with Varanus s. salvator, with a discussion of dispersal routes Mertensiella 2: 154-167

Mertens,R. 1962. Philippinosaurus, eine neue Untergattung von Varanus. Senck. biol. 43 (5): 331-333

Pianka, E.R. 2004. Varanus olivaceus. Varanoid Lizards of the World (editied by Eric R. Pianka and Dennis R. King with Ruth Allen King). Indiana University Press, Bloomington, IN. 220-224

Sprackland, R.G. 1992. Giant Lizards. TFH Publications Inc. Neptune City, NJ. 113-114

Ziegler, Thomas; Böhme, Wolfgang 1996. Neue Erkenntnisse zur Geschlechtsunterscheidung bei squamaten Reptilien. Kleintierpraxis 41 (8): 585-590

This is what I was able to come up with other than what has already been mentioned in this thread, by looking around my home. Daniel Bennett is sure to have written other entries about Varanus olivaceus in his two other books on monitor lizards, which I unfortunately do not have. I am definitely looking forward to reading his thesis and future work on this species.

Thank you. I will definitely look those up.

__________________
"Let's eat, Grandpa!"
"Let's eat Grandpa!"

Punctuation. It saves lives.