How do you tell people about sand?

**ajvw** · #11 07-11-2006, 06:00 PM

I really appreciate EVERYONE's replies (including yours, Joeking!

). I understand the issues with sand and can clearly explain them to people. My issue is more one of etiquette/diplomacy. I want what I say to have the best possible chance of being effective in convincing people to make a change. For pet owners themselves, I think that having the vivid pics of sand impaction is a good idea. I can tell them that once I saw this, I was horrified and would never put my leo on sand, and that will likely get them thinking, too. I can also put on the printout some links to reputable caresheets (like the one here, of course). For pet stores, I guess I feel like I'm unlikely to convince anyone to change, but I need to give it my best anyway. I will see what I can do to develop a form letter that I can send to stores I visit, explaining the problems and giving links to resources (including HCN!). I can also carry that with me and share it with the store employees.

On a happy note, I visited my local Petsmart yesterday for crix and decorative plants, and they have their Leopard Geckos on Repticarpet! I found the gal who was working in reptiles that day and congratulated her for their choice not to use sand. She seemed a little bewildered by what I was saying, so maybe I should send them a "yay!" letter, also with links and info so they know where I'm coming from.

Thanks for all the feedback, everyone. This place is the best!

**KrokadilyanGuy3** · #12 07-11-2006, 07:26 PM

Terrapene c. carolina do not live just simply on sand, whether you like using sand or not.

My feelings are that no smaller species of lizard, who in high activity search for chemosensory information, should be kept on any loose substrate, including aspen. This would also go for young animals: Blue tongues, Uros, skinks and even Iguanas; just to name a few.

On the contrary, however, I'm a huge fan of natural enclosures simply because I enjoy the entire aspects of keeping herps. In light of it, I am basically a saltwater fish keeper, but with herps. In which case, many of my animals experience sand in their habitats: Collard lizards, Chuckwallas, Uros, Horned lizards and the such. It's never just sand, but a majority of the substrate is in some cases.

The sand I use is not play sand, nor is it sand from petstores. The sand I use is sand I have collected myself. Most of the sand I use I have collected from areas that are in high concentration of Collards, Horned lizards (I've got my spots) and chuckwallas. You can also get the same types of sand at a lot of home decor (Lowe's 'n the such) places.

I feed these animals in other areas or in areas of the enclosure that is free of sand, including my snakes.

I've been housing certain of herps like this as far back as I can remember and I've never had an animal die of impaction. -Except for my horned frog, but it ate my other horned that I tossed in there so I could clean it's enclosure.

I've had someone tell me that I didn't really care for my animals once or twice in my life simply because I have methods of keeping that most other herpers disagree with, but these same people feed their dogs brand name (Or not so brand name) dogs foods, their cats with their brand namers, (If you ever had to learn about brand foods you'll understand) let their kids (of course being of legal age: or not) drive as well as give them all sorts of unhealthy foods and beverages and so forth. In other words, they're just as evil, except I comprehend everything I do. Mostly.. I think..

These are also the same people who often keep their animals in racks and Rubbermaid containers. Forgive me if I don't understand why these people even have herps, except for the breeder's, but I reguard most breeder's (Specifically "morphers") the same way I reguard most pet stores.

And, I'm really just rambling.. I'm bored.

Either way, if you ever happened upon my animals and decided to tell me that my enclosures were unfit, I would be a bit insulted. So, I would rather start off by starting a conversation into why exactly they are using sand and then maybe run by impaction and alternative substrate possibilities, because showing me a picture of an impacted lizard and saying this is why you shouldn't use sand will pretty much make me question the circumstances of the photo, your persuasion abilities, the type of sand he is using, and why haven't any of my animals which have been with me since forever suffered the same fate.

No sand for the simple Joe, either.

**ajvw** · #13 07-12-2006, 04:39 AM

Zane, I started this thread in the Leopard Gecko section because I'm speaking specifically and only about Leopard Geckos. I know next to nothing about other herps, though others here do, so if they want to disagree with you about sand for reptiles in general, I'll leave that to them. As for Leopard Geckos, I think I've made it pretty clear in what I've said that I am specifically *not* going to approach anyone and tell them their enclosures are "unfit," but I do hope to educate those who are unaware of the danger of chronic impaction of the role that substrate can play -- simply for the sake of their animals. I'm glad your Leopard Geckos have never had a problem, and hope they never do. For myself, no matter how much I might or might not enjoy the "natural" look of sand, I see no reason to risk my pets' health over my own pleasure at the appearance of their enclosure -- especially when there are attractive alternatives that don't pose an impaction risk. Anything healthy to the animal is attractive to me.

**KrokadilyanGuy3** · #14 07-12-2006, 09:11 PM

I personally like using slate tiles, but I've never been to fond of the other methods in the ways of being attractive. I was also only providing advise as I know other keepers who tend to tread on others who do not share their "responsible" methods; my posting was not excluding Leopard Geckos, which is why I posted my thoughts. I just happen to have the gracious ability to ramble.

**rbl** · #15 07-14-2006, 12:58 AM

I think the expression "a picture is worth a 1000 words" is very true when it comes to this issue.
I recently had a conversation with a guy that was defending his corn knobs substrate. I told him the whole thing and warned him about all the dangers of loose substrates but it didn't made any change.
But after seeing the pictures from Joeking's link, he changed his tune!

Sadly when it comes to stores they won't change anything because no other product has the same aesthetic appeal as sand. Besides, their profit comes from selling sand and not the animals themselves =( so what you are asking in fact, is that they remove their most profitable product from display.


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