Calcium sand, ground walnut shells!
Why?
High profit margin!
Would you agree with that statement if one of the lizards that died was yours? And you knew that you could have prevented its death by one simple change?
It should be our goal as keepers to provide as safe and healthy an environment as we possibly can.

As Rich said, the difference between the advice you get here and the advice you get at a pet store is that, at the store they are trying to make sales. That's their business. If they don't make sales they close their doors!

What we get out if it is the knowledge that we helped someone keep their pet alive and healthy.
Personally I think thats a pretty good pay off!

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Merlin,
What's Life Without A Little Magic!

As was stated in my previous message this was what the shop keeper has said. BUT. I agree with him. Anyone making the choice to own an animal that is truly meant to stay in the wild should understand that death could be (as sad as it is) a part of their domestic life. We do all we can to make sure they are taken care of to the best of our abilities. But truly, anything can happen to them: choking on a cricket to them eating some of their sand. Do you then throw caution to the wind and do anything you want? NO. But people should know that danger lurks everywhere. Askyour self if you really love your pets would you put them in a cage to look at or set them free? This is a very hard question. One with many answers. So when you ask "Would I agree with that statment if one of the lizards that died was yours?" I'd say I'm a responsible owner with realistic expectations.

BUT...you are not keeping a animal from the wild, you are keeping a captive breed animal and it is your responsibility to make sure it is safe.

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MARSHA
A man without a woman is a bachelor, A woman without a man is a genius!.

We have enough youth, how about a fountain of smart!

ok, I kinda have a problem with these statements in bold.
Yes DEATH is a part of life. However if the life expectancy is 16-20 years, how is it acceptable that due to something WE as their care takers do cut that in half or even less?
The environment that you are keeping your animal in is NOT natural. And you have a responsibility as a PET OWNER to take care of that animal to the best of your ability. Now, how is putting the animal in further UNNECESSARY danger taking care of it to the BEST OF YOUR ABILITY?
Realistic Expectations? What do you mean by this? That the animal is going to die so I shouldn't care if I help it on its way?

Now Rich and Merlin weren't trying to put you down for taking the advice of the store salesman. They were trying to get you to see why these salespeople push the products that they do. I am going to try to give you the benefit of the doubt and say that your last post was your getting defensive because you MIGHT have thought "we" as a group were "jumping down your throat". I will let you know that this isn't the case, the people on this forum are VERY dedicated to animals and have their best interests in mind. This can make us VERY passionate.
All I am going to say is that if you want to be a RESPONSIBLE pet owner, step up and take care of the animal to the best of your ability. And in fact, using the suggestions already made to you about substrates will actually SAVE you money in addition to being better for your animal.

I would also like to point out that Rich is right about the animals on the floor of a pet store not being an accurate representation of the store. I should know, I quit my job at a pet store because I was sick of loosing animals. The reason I went to that store in the first place to get a job was because I thought the same thing, every time I went in, it looked like the animals were healthy. Little did I know that for every healthy animal they had on the floor there were 5-6 that were sick or dead....

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To everyone

Please don't think that I'm not taking your sugestiions to heart. I've changes Annie sub. twice now installed a, underground heater, and caught all the silly crickets that she dose not eat so they don't bite or keep her awake when she is trying to sleep... As for previous threads yes I did get upset from some responses. I am a dedicated pet owner that dose not like (wether intended or not) to be treated like she is stupid. As for the other pet owners on this site I respect their knowledge and compation to their pets and am more than happy to recieve advice from them. BUT please do not take this the wrong way as I do not intend to insult or be rude but this is what I have noticed as I was reading many threads throughtout this sight. Many times things have been said intended as critisium/advice. Offence was taken. Someone tries to smooth it over. Life goes on. In the last 1/2 hour I've read three of these. Advice is very important to us all critisium is a great way to learn but both must be done in a kind manner. I thank everyone for their years of advice without it anything we learn would only be from books and not from first hand experience. (please pardon the spelling mistakes)

with that said here is hoping you all still talking to me. I do have another question. The shop keeper sold me a under tank heater as the previous owner only had a over the canopy light. The temp. with the light was at about 79 to 82 as the day would go through. with the under tank heater the temp. has gone up to 87. I felt this was too warm and turned the overhead light off. In a very short period of time the temp. has gone down to 78. This concerns me. The shop keeper also told me to put the under tank heater under her house and to put a thick blanket of damp moss in her house to aid with her shedding. As I am trying not to take his advice gosfull I thought someone could pervide some insite to this. Thanks

Edit: I have re-read the care sheet again and here is my take on it. I could probably have the overhead light on during the day to increase the heat to 85-88 then turn it off at night so it will drop to 75ish. As to what the care sheet has said to have the under tank heater under her home and there needs to be a heat change from day to night anyways. Dose this sound right?

So what's your verdict on the walnut, are you going to toss it? It really is garbage, I had a bearded dragon on it for about 3 months 3 years ago and he passed bits of it for nearly a year in his bowel movements, he hasn't defecated on his own accord since, I have to bump his temps way up, feed him a teaspoon of oil and give him along hot soak and a belly massage every other day or 3 to get him to go potty.

The combo of the light and Under Tank Heater (under tank heater) is what I do with b****face, she has 12 hour of light with the Under Tank Heater and 12 hours off. Gives her the proper gradient, hey need a cooler night temp than day temp.

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“Be the change you want to see in the world.”

-Mahatma Gandhi

~Lacey~

My Photos

This is true. But we need to do what we can to ensure that there is as little a possibilty of such occurances happening. We feed proper sized food and try to eliminate hazards that may present themselves.

Of course we are still talking to you. And I am sorry if some of the responses offended you, that was not the intent. There are many of us here that have been fighting this battle (petstore misinformation to make a sale or just bad info!) for many years. We hear the same stuff over and over so some of the replies may have been less than diplomatic. We do have the best interest of keeper and kept at heart.

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Merlin,
What's Life Without A Little Magic!

Jacquelyn, I think it's very admirable that you care enough about your leo to try to find the correct information on how to care for her. She will be much better off for it, and a very happy, long lived lizard.

It can be difficult to sort through the gallons of misinformation thrown at you as a new reptile owner (or as a new owner of a particular species). Pet stores are difficult to trust. While there are some truly sincere people working there, who do have knowledge about the species they're selling, it's rare to find. Most pet stores are required to keep their reptiles on walnut bedding or wood chips, regardless of whether it is good or bad for the animal. The reason for this is presentation. People are more prone to buy an animal if they see it in what looks like their natural habitat. It is, by and large, the appeal of reptiles that you are actually building a world for them to live in. And if the pet store happens to sell that brand of substrate, it's a bonus, because the average owner will just take it for granted that the pet store is giving the proper care to the animal.

It's also difficult to get great advice online. Some people really know what they are talking about, and others don't. Sifting through right and wrong is not easy.

To be sure, go to amazon or your local bookstore and look for books by leopard geckos. I'm sure the people here have some good suggestions on which ones are worth your time to read. That will give you a good base for what environment a leopard gecko would have had in the wild, and how to best simulate that.

Another good, reliable source of information is your vet. Make sure the vet is a certified reptile vet and not just someone who sees reptiles too. Any certified herp vet should be able to give you loads of information on how to take care of your leopard gecko. They can tell you first hand about what substrates cause which problems in cases they've seen, and they can give you some really great tips on how to prevent that from happening to yours. I always recommend taking any new animal to the vet to get a check-up, and then at least once a year after that. Reptiles can be sick for a long time without giving a hint of it until it's too late and sometimes a check-up can catch a problem early.

There are some really knowledgable people here, but I completely understand wanting to verify the information you are getting. A little research does every pet owner good.

For me, I try to really think about the effects any of my actions could have on my pets. If I swallowed sand or walnut chips with every meal I ate, I know it would cause a blockage in me. And I've never had serious constipation, but I've heard it's pretty excruciating. If there's even a chance my pets could go through something that painful, and then die, I want to keep it from them. Considering also that newspaper, paper towels or tile is so much easier to clean and easier on my pocketbook really helps.

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"Let's eat, Grandpa!"
"Let's eat Grandpa!"

Punctuation. It saves lives.

Thankyou for writing back Merlin. As for the substrate I guess I'm just really annoyed (not with you guys) with the would in general. You research and research trying to make the right choices both for your pet and financially to find out that it the wrong one anyways. I looked at the walnut stuff trying to find some reason to keep it. - It is very small and there is no hard edges on it - BUT in the end it is still just like sand. If I change it out today it will be the third day in a row that I've taken poor Annie out of her home. I'm worried about stressing her to much. The only food that I've seen her eat is the caterpiller and I don't see any signs of pooping. I am giving her 4 week crickets and tried mealworms. She didn't seem to care about the worms and I thought the crickets looked a little big. I removed them and tried my 2 week crickets - no luck -. Granted she is shedding and that could affect her appetite and make her tired. She is very dull in color but I have not noticed any skin coming off yet.