Hello,

I have been keeping and breeding Leopard Geckos now for about 10 years. Never have I used UV lighting on them and never have I heard anything about anyone ever using mulch as a substrate with leopard geckos.

Lets look at the leopard gecko and how it lives in the wild. Then you can base how you want to house your leo.

Leopard geckos spend almost all of their time in their hides during daylight hours. They become active as the sun sets and the insects begin to become active. Their exposure to natural UV is extremely limited. So limited, that supplying a normal day/night cycle with UV is not only unrequired, but serves little purpose.

Their natural substrate is actually similar to a pressed clay splattered with stone , sparse grass growth, and trace sand.

They prefer mountaneous regions as hiding spots to burrow in are ample.

They come from Iraq, Pakistan, Afghanistan, etc. Where in those regions do you suppose you would find "mulch" as a natural substrate? Why in the world would any zoo place these animals on a substrate they would never encounter in the wild? They wouldn't. Zoos DO NOT use mulch as a substrate with leopard geckos.

The one thing you will learn about petstores, if you visit any reptile site online, is that they do not care about what your animal REALLY needs. They are interested in selling you what they have in stock. It's a business and if lying or misinforming you is going to get you to spend more money, that's exactly what they are going to do.

If you wish to believe the information from the petstore over those of us that have been keeping these animals for years, you are entitled to do so. Before you make your decision though, I encourage you to join some other reptile forums and post this exact same issue as well as what the petstore employee has told you. Read the responses there and see for yourself.

I would greatly appreciate it if you would forward me the name of this petstore as well as their location and phone number. I want to contact them.

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I would listen to the experienced people on this site before any pet store. When I bought my first leo from pet store in February almost 100% of the information that they gave me was incorrect. They also sold me a severly malnurished baby gecko. I didn't do my homework before I bought and I thought she was so skinny because she was a baby. That baby gecko lived exactly 9 days after I brought her home. And I think she only lived that long because I followed the advice that was given to me on this site. I was feeding her baby food and pedialyte with an eye dropper!

I have since gotten a new leo gecko and I keep her in a 10 gallon tank with PAPER TOWELS on the botton -- not the $20 worth of sand the pet store sold me). I feed her EVERY DAY -- not once a week like the pet store told me. I feed her food that is small enough for her to eat, small crickets -- not large crickets that attacked the original leo --- like the pet store sold me. I use an under tank heater to provide her belly heat ( the only thing the pet store did get right). I keep a regular incadescent buld above to heat up the enclosure during the day. I provide her with a moist hide (pet store claims they never heard of this).

Please, like Rich said check out other sites if you are unsure. Most pet stores are trying to sell you product to make money. Unfortunately some pet stores don't care about the animals they sell. I left the pet store after spending over $100 on stuff for my leo that I did not need. This was a pet store that has been in business for more than 25 years. If I had come here first I would have saved myself a lot of money and would not have put my daughter through the horrible experience of watching that little leo die.

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Kelly

My pets:
Leopard Gecko ~ Ducky
Rabbit ~ Chester
Kitten ~ Lil Fang
Black Bear Hamster - Charlie
Parakeet ~ Ray
Eastern Box Turtle ~ Ollie
Hermit Crab ~ Mr. Crabs
Teddy Bear Hamster ~ Poppy RIP 7/12/07

Im not exactly sure if the substrate is mulch but it definetly has similar characteristics as the mulch. What you guys are telling me makes alot of sense so much sense im actually enraged with the petstore because im sure im not the only customer they do this to. I spent a substantial amount of money on little Trex and his home and half of the stuff is not necessary or useless and my leo may have become stressed due to this.

the pet store is:
Pets Place II
Nanuet, NY 10954


It seemed to be a well mantained enviornment for thier pets but I am begining to question it my friend recently bought a baby ball python at the same time I bought trex and the snake also wont eat, but snakes dont feed but once a week so he is not concearned but me I am very angry.

I appreciate everyones help I know many have repeated themselves but im hardheaded I need to hear things over and over before I take to them. wish me luck

The ball python is a whole new ball game, lol, They are picky eaters to begin with. If it is a baby, they should be eating every 5 days. Tell him to join and feel free to ask questions, we would be more than happy to help.

Rule of thumb, never listen to pet store people, lol

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MARSHA

:D I'm smiling because I have no idea whats going on!

You also have to realize that many of the petstore employees don't have any more knowledge of what they are selling than you do. All they know is what the boss told them to say. And the boss may have no clue either.
I know its a shame but its also a fact.

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Merlin,
What's Life Without A Little Magic!

Hello,

For anyone who may have been interested in speaking with the store, you can contact them at this number: 1 (845) 623-5565

The store owner and I did not see eye to eye on these issues. The store doesn't suggest sand for leopard geckos (which is great), so they need to suggest "something" as a substrate. In this case, it is the stuff that they sold trex. He agreed with me that paper towel or newspaper would have been better alternatives, but they are not "as attractive". (In laymans terms: we don't make money on that stuff.)

In relation to UV, he agreed that UV was not necassary if the animal is being fed a proper diet of gutloaded insects, but since most people don't do that, he feels strongly that the UV is required. I attempted to explain about UV output, the nocturnal nature of the animal, etc., but he needed to justify why he sells the lighting for this nocturnal animals and we locked horns.

He didn't have much to say to justify the UV lighting sale except he is anticipating all of the people buying from him as being irresponsible and not providing their feeders with adequate diets or supplementing the animals. The moment I mentioned that he should start pushing the supplements, opposed to the lighting, he had to suddenly go.

He seems like a very nice guy, but its just not feasible to suggest equipment that isn't necassary. By pushing and emphasising the supplements, which cost MUCH less than a UV setup, he would be able to stop pushing the UV. This however would hurt his bottom line, so that is obviously not an option.

In the end, it is another case of money over true care in my eyes. If you can push the $30.00-$40.00 setup, opposed to the $5.00 supplement, why not do it? That is basically what I took away from this conversation.

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I dont know why you called the pet store thats a little crazy. I mean the guy was nice enough to let me bring Trex in for a few days so they can get her eating right. The phone call was unecessary but well appreciated for your help and concearn but non the less not needed. Hopefully Trex will take a liking to eating and become a healthy gecko but for now I can only hope

Hello,

The phone call wasn't specifically for you. You were not the first person they sold UV lighting to for Leopard Geckos, and you won't likely be the last. I called to ask WHY they are selling these items, which are not needed, and not actually pushing the items that should be sold for the Leopard Geckos.

If everyone never did anything, and never said anything, and never confronted these people, they will keep doing what they do because they believe that everyone is ignorant. I call to place th bug in their ear to let them know that what they do and what they sell isn't confined to just their store.

Some people you chat with are willing to listen and exchange information. Myself and the individual I chatted with did just that. We did not agree on many things, but the information was exchanged. According to the person I spoke with, he sells the UV light as he anticipates the people he is selling to will not care for their animals correctly and they won't supplement the animal or gutload the insects. He figures that the Leo will use the UV for its D3.

I was pretty clear when I asked for their location that I intended on contacting them. I am surprised at how you seem surprised that I did.

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while whatever words were exchanged they did not help any. im pretty sure he thinks your a nut and thinks im an ******* but hey withe it aint a big deal I just want to get my gecko healthy and both of you are trying to help

Unfortunantly, that is the reality of dealing with most petstores. It is their objective to sell merchandise. They will say whatever is needed to make the sale as without the sales, they go out of business.

We didn't agree with many things. Thats ok. I go into these conversations with the realization that they likely won't help. You can't change anything though if you don't at least try.

He can think I am a nut. lol I am not the one though sitting in a petstore pushing unneeded products on people for a fee. instead, I sit behind a PC and offer my experience and advice for free. I have nothing to lose by stating the truth behind what these animals need. He has sales to lose if he does that though.

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