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Obstruction?

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Obstruction?

This is what our member has to say: Hmmm so Brazilian Rainbow Boa's lay eggs or they just appear as eggs before fertilization and they do give birth to live babies like other ...


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  #11  
02-08-2006, 03:09 PM
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Hmmm so Brazilian Rainbow Boa's lay eggs or they just appear as eggs before fertilization and they do give birth to live babies like other boas....How interesting is this? Wow....Lyn
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  #12  
02-08-2006, 04:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackJack
I'm not really sure what to expect... since she is a boa, I would not expect her to lay the eggs... or will she pass them as slugs? reabsorb them?
Based on my experience (I'm no expert) and your description of the snake I think she'll probably pass some slugs.

Quote:
Is it too late to put her together with a male?
Probably, at least this time. However, keep in mind that female snakes can retain viable sperm for sometime and if she remains in good condition you may still end-up with babies in 2006.

  #13  
 I helped move the meter!   02-08-2006, 05:23 PM
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Good to hear its nothing serious Andrea. Keep us posted.
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  #14  
02-08-2006, 06:15 PM
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Hi Andrea,

I have responded to your PM, but I thought that it might also be beneficial to post some of my reply on this thread, so here goes;

My initial reply to this would have been not to be worried; firstly, it is not unusual for snakes, particularly species with slower metabolisms such as boas and pythons, not to defacate as regularly. Also, I was going to say it sounds like she is either a)ovulating and in preparation for breeding and therefore will be off feed, or b)just not hungry. Snakes can go for a long time without feeding and I would have initially responded with that.

Also I just wanted to briefly mention the injections you had been advised to give her by the vet; again I would have suggested that it was too early to try these measures and it can also be very stressful for the snake. But it is done now, and will not have done any harm I'm sure, so don't concern yourself with that now.

Regarding the eggs; my first question will be, has she shed recently? If so, then I'm afraid at this moment it is really too late to bother trying to breed from her. Boas have a post-ovulation shed and by the time this has occurred the eggs just won't be much good. If she isn't mated with then the eggs will just be reabsorbed - she will not lay any slugs - with no repurcussions.

If she hasn't shed then I would suggest, if you want to, to go ahead and borrow this male. It is obvious from her ovulation and non-feeding that she is in breeding mode and will be perfectly fine to produce babies. (Just for the record, she will have been ready to breed from around the age of 3years).

Don't worry about the baths and massages; they will not have done any harm to the eggs. They should ovulate once, perhaps twice, in the breeding season, and the eggs can either be fertilised through a mating or will be simply reabsorbed.

Another thing to mention is that if Talyn has had her post-ovulation shed you can still try mating her. She may ovulate again, or if not might produce later in the year, as they can retain the sperm for a long time while it is used to reproduce, so it may not be a waste of effort borrowing the male.


For the record, BRBs cannot "lay" without copulation; they will ovulate, as do all female snakes. It's the equivalant of female humans having a period each month; we are ovulating eggs, which are discarded if not fertilised. But they will not lay any eggs - perhaps slugs I'm not sure - although I would have thought that slugs too would only be layed after copulation. It is most likely that she will reabsorb the eggs.

Our female corns and our female Brazilian Rainbow Boa are all ovulating right now; it's quite obvious for the naked eye to see - the snake becomes quite swollen around the middle area and feels quite squashy to touch. They may also go off feed for a little while, though generally not to the extreme that males do in breeding season.


Good luck if you attempt to breed her Andrea, and I always like to think of these experiences as valuable learning curves; at least you will know what to expect next year and not let her stress you out if she goes off feed again
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  #15  
 I helped move the meter!   02-09-2006, 02:23 PM
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Another theory

(Thanks for all the info Rachel)
As of this evening, Talyn is staying with a VERY handsome male Brazilian Rainbow Boa for a while. The guy who has him will keep her there for a while and see if there is any action. If not, she's either past her fertile stage or (in a bizarre world) she's already gravid!
The guy who has the male and has bred Brazilian, Columbian, Peruvian and Argentinian rainbow boas successfully, looked her over and said that he would say she's already gravid.
I told him that wasn't possible and only hours later it occured to me that my poor Q could have squeezed and blocked a deeper probing... my vet was pretty nervous about probing, so she may have not gone deep enough. What if our poor Q (R.I.P) actually was a male?! S/He died in May of last year and lived with Talyn for a while just before that -- and they were quite cuddly.

Do any of you have any idea how long a rainbow boa might be able to retain sperm? Could Talyn be gravid from an encounter so long ago?! (I just read an article that a garter snake was mated in June of 2002 and gave birth the following JULY 2003!) I know boas and garter snakes are different... the remote possibility intrigues me, though.

I'll keep you updated. If anyone has any info about retained sperm n boas, I'd like to hear about it.
Thanks!
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  #16  
02-09-2006, 02:56 PM
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That sounds pretty cool Andrea, I hope something comes of their pairing for you..


It isn't highly likely that Talyn would have retained sperm for so long, if Q was a male, but there is an outside chance, so I wouldn't completely rule it out. Out of interest, and also for genetic reasons, I would be tempted therefore not to pair her up with this new male just yet and see if anything does come of this; if Q was a male and Talyn has retained sperm, but then mates with this new male and ends up producing some young you will not be certain of the father. Also I guess it might get rid of that question mark over Q's gender.


Just one point - ovulating females can look a lot like pregnant females; they do really swell up and become lumpy and bumpy.

I would personally be tempted to leave her alone and see if anything does come of this, that way you know that Q was a male and you know who the father is. Then if nothing happens you can breed with her next year, but of course that's entirely up to you.


Do keep us updated, it will be interesting to know the outcome!
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  #17  
02-09-2006, 05:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackJack
Do any of you have any idea how long a rainbow boa might be able to retain sperm?
I remember reading 2 years for most boas is well documented and with some species the period of time was considerably longer. I'll see if I can dig up the paper.

  #18  
 I helped move the meter!   02-09-2006, 05:16 PM
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WOW. 2 years?! John, I'd love to have more details on that if you find it. Thanks.
Here's a recent pic of this big girl:
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  #19  
 I helped move the meter!   02-10-2006, 02:49 PM
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Scary discussion with vet

My vet called about Talyn today. She'd shown the X-ray to some other people and they all agree they are eggs.
When I asked if they could say for sure if they are eggs or follicles, she stuttered and didn't know. I asked if she could tell if the eggs were fertilized or not... she couldn't, but according to me, Talyn hadn't been with a male.
So I asked her what she knew about sperm retention in boas... never heard of it... The only way to know if the eggs are fertilized would be an ultrasound, which she doesn't do.

Her advice: give Talyn oxytocin: (for those of you who don't know) this would stimulate Talyn to lay the eggs. If that didn't work, she suggested surgery to cut them out. She said that this would involve pretty much slicing most of Talyn's belly open and how difficult it would be to sew it up properly!!
I was horrified! I told her I have no intention of doing ANYTHING more besides waiting. I think she's either already gravid or may have a chance at getting some of the eggs fertilized now or she's not. But I don't want to abort her eggs at this stage. She just started to refuse food and take on symptoms of being gravid: I think it's WAY too early to resort to such extreme measures. What do you all think?
I've done so much reading about boa and snake reproduction in the last few days that my brain is about to bust -- I still don't know what to make of Talyn's condition. But already I feel better informed than this vet! Just because someone has a title doesn't mean they know everything. Do your own research too and question everything twice (at least!)

Yes, I'm holding out some hope that somehow she might produce a clutch of at least a baby or a few... but even if she doesn't, I don't want to slice her open. I'm confident her body will know how to deal with unfertilized eggs.

PS -- a bit of good news: since Talyn is having a few "sleep overs" at the other boa's place, I decided to do a thorough cleaning of her terrarium and set it up better for a possible birthing. (I found a very small --for her-- stool!!) Which means that she can still pass material past the eggs!! That's a big relief and what had me most concerned.
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