[deltro_star]

I have been designing a Vivarium for some time now (My Masterpiece!) to house multiple herp species giving it a really cool complete ecosystem look. Would you guys be able to give me some tips on good neighbors I work mainly tree and dart frogs but want to add small lizards like geckos and such. What herps do you guys think would do well together? Keep in mind That they would have to share similar Temperate requirements.

[kenman1963]

a complete ecosystem look correct ?? you are not attempting to try and design a working ecosystem right ?.....from there we could probably help more. But it sounds like an incredibly awesome undertaking....What size are you planning, what temps, what humidity levels, substrates ?? anything you could tell us would be great in helping the herp selection....BTW it was cool to talk to you last night Marine,,,,Hoorah !!!!

[deltro_star]

Hoorah Ken!! Id be glad to give you guys the specs: Im lookin at a 75 gallon bowfront aquarium for this project I want to section off a corner of the bottom for freswater fish (this section will be complete with hidden filtration system) Then I would like use the rest of the ground part for tall bromeliads, ferns and mosses. I want the Background to be as much of a functional terrain as the ground its will adorned will caves and cliff for the residents as well as hidden planters for terrestrial plants and vines to grow off the background. The " jungle System" would have to stay at around 80 degrees (comfortable amphibian temp) Im going to be installing the works into this thing guys: Automatic Misting System, Hydro fogger, Adjustable Lighting and Heating ect. its mainly going to be for arboreal and terrestrial frogs but the addition of other herps is what I really want what say you guys?

[kenman1963]

Well as I am stuck at work rite now and all of my reference material is home....you might have to wait til I get there for my input. It looks like with the problems i'm having here I wont be driving to the N.Y. expo tonight,,,so expect me on HC and in the chat then (i cannot access the chatroom from work)

[geckoguy14]

wait wait wait......you want to house dart frogs with anything BUT other dart frogs? I think cody would probably agree with me when I say that they are very needy being and don't fare well with other frog species, including many other dart frog species, and the same species! If you want to mix herp species (which I don't reccomend) then you may have success with some smaller tree frogs like red eyes and green tree frogs, with smaller day geckos. It may work, but it's never a good idea unless it is very very planned out the the last minute detail.

Good luck if you do choose darts (alone of course), they are the coolest!

[CodyW]

Deltro, a complete 'in-situ' style vivarium won't be attainable in a 75 gallon. However there are some other options depending on what you are trying to accomplish. Depending on if your going for maitanance free, display, experimental......

One option and something that is almost entirely new to the vivarium world is vivarium with a compost section. By providing a decomposing organic mass you can provide the plants with nutrients and the feeders a place to reproduce and thrive to provide your animals with food. If your interested in this I'll send you the thread that talks about the concept.

As far as mixing species, I have a 'don't do it...yet' view. I feel that it is possible just something that shouldn't be approached by just anyone. Even though you have experience with darts you don't have experience with the other animal that will be mixed, which is where I see a problem. I believe you should be experienced with all the animals considered before a mixed tank is even attempted. A setup with multiple species would require you to be able to recognize problems with any one of the animals. Not to mention 75 gallons really isn't that large, if you were to survey the most heavily populated portion of a forest, the area that a 75 gallon tank occupies probably would not have more than one herp species in it.

If you have the experience you need to consider every ecological interaction that will take place in the tank--predation, competition, reproduction, distribution, etc. For example if you have geckos in with dart frogs, geckos eat full size crickets. A bite from a full size cricket to a dart frog can cause an infection that could possibly kill your frog.

If your doing a paludarium I just recommend some darts and some type of schooling fish for the water section. The darts won't have any troubles with the water and the fish will help to clean the water of any dead flies that decide they want to take a little swim. Let me know what you think.

[deltro_star]

Really good thinking Cody, good point about the large crickets attacking my darts, It might be a more intelligent idea to stick with one type of frog species and schooling fish on the lower half especially since I can only use a 75 gallon tank, I would love to use a larger size but I think If I did MY Ecosystem might become short one Girlfriend. Im really interested in this Compost Idea though please send me any information you have it sounds like a great way to maintain plant and insect life and wouldn't it be awesome to see sprouting mushrooms in a Terrarium!. I Think Im going to use a dart frog species possibly a colony of tincs not sure which kind though...any suggestions guys? Right now Im still in the design stages figuring everything and it sounds like you guys are a great source of info keep your input coming guys I really appreciate it! any suggestions on plants, herps (probably darts), and lets not forget the aquatic flora and fauna as well. I hope to get started with construction By Mid June so as much input as possible is great.

[WingedWolf]

I have to agree, I don't think dart frogs are suitable for community enclosures...larger animals...and just about anything is going to be larger--may try to eat them. Result, injured or dead dart frog, and possibly dead lizard or tree frog...the toxins may be reduced, but they aren't absent.
The other animals aren't going to know they're toxic. The bright colors are a warning, and animals in their native environment may have evolved to recognize that warning, but species from other areas won't.