I've been part of a discussion on this topic in another venue. It is a very interesting topic. Considering some parts of the world are already under this law, and others will probably be in the not too distant future.
I'm interested in hearing everyones view points before I contaminate your minds with mine.
So what do you think? Would it be beneficial to help stop mass-collecting in the wild? Would it help or hinder the captive breeding projects of the personal collections?

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Mike
"Never worry about numbers. Help one person at a time, and always start with the person nearest you." - Mother Teresa

I would have no problems applying for a permit. I know I take care of my animals well and would have no problem passing. I mean, when I adopted my cats, the rescue agency required a vet reference and a personal reference.

Would it stop collecting from the wild? No, i dont' think so. Do gun laws stop people from buying guns illegally? not at all.

I don't think it would help or hinder captive breeding. Breeders would have to prove they could care for the animals, and then they would have a permit to breed.

The same for personal collections.

Would we need a permit for each individual animal? Each species? or just a blanket "allowed to keep herps" permit?

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My name is Liz
Do what's best for the animal, not what's best for you.

It seems most of the by-laws start with the larger species of reptiles. Like pythons, boas and the larger monitors. Although in an area just 1/2 hr from me you can now no longer purchase tortoises. That one has me baffled.
One point about hindering the captive breeding projects is that if it becomes more difficult for people to purchase reptiles, then less people will be buying them. That means nowhere to sell our captive bred specimens.

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Mike
"Never worry about numbers. Help one person at a time, and always start with the person nearest you." - Mother Teresa

I'm in favor only for the good of the animals. When people are browsing through a pet store and go, "oh look at that cute little burmese python!!" it would prevent them from being able to impulse buy it and then abuse it. Having to purchase a permit would at the very least make them step back and ask themselves if it's worth a second expense. At most, depending on the rules on how to acquire the permit, they'd have to prove that they could take care of it, which means knowing a LOT more about it than what they'd get at the store.

It would drive the price of reptiles up, I think, but again, that would discourage impulse buys that result in an inability to care for their pet.

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"Let's eat, Grandpa!"
"Let's eat Grandpa!"

Punctuation. It saves lives.

I agree with you. The main thing I believe that needs to be driven into Pet Stores is education. Once people are educated they can make better decisions. Not to say they all will but it'll be improvement. I have been in a smaller pet store before where the owner refused to sell someone a large species snake. The intended purchaser appeared to be in his mid teens and wasn't happy. I'm sure he got one somewhere else but I praised the owner for his efforts. It all has to start somewhere.

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Mike
"Never worry about numbers. Help one person at a time, and always start with the person nearest you." - Mother Teresa

I support permits for any large or rare animal, when the system is not too restrictive. I could see how it could reduce the number of wild collected species as pet shops will have a more limited number of clients that will go though the process of obtaining a permit. Though I don't see it affecting captive breeding, people who wish to breed would be most likely to get permits and keep them up to date whether they be pro or hobby breeders. It could also get rid of low quality breeding projects.

Though this depends on the permit type, one state in Germany pass a law last year requiring permits to keep a list of animals (mostly vipers and large snakes) but banned breeding of the animals under this permit. To breed the restricted animals you must be a zoo or institute, and the animals can not be sold on to the market.

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"Tonights forcast..... Dark." Al Sleet, the hippy dippy weather man, George Carlin. You will be missed.
http://schlange-titus.de
http://dght.de

I think it depends on how they did it. What type of permit exactly, how it worked, and all that. I would love to see permits required for snakes that routinely get over 8 feet long, and all crocodilians. Rare species, large ones, species with really long lifespans, and species with high maintenance should require permits. Green iguanas should require permits, just because they get big, they're harder to care for than most realize, and it would cut down on the irresponsible buyers I think.

I don't think ALL reptiles should require permits. If we did that, we ought to make all PETS require permits, and I really wouldn't have a problem with that either. I think WAY too many people get pets when they really ought not to. I wouldn't want the permit issue to get too expensive though. I wouldn't be very happy if I'm a responsible pet owner who has to pay out the nose just because I have a lot of animals.

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+5 bonus points to whoever finds me a job!

"Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines." - John Benfield

In putting more thought into the subject and looking at the laws in some states already in place. It's unlikely that the goverment would really care about looking into the buyer before buying the animal, but more permits for the perpose of tracking trade from person to person and state to state. It would be very unlikely that they would deny permits to a person without prior infractions.

In some states the permit paperwork is give when you buy the animal and left for the buyer to send in. If this is the push to require permits, then it could be resolved in the same manner as CITES animals. Where the seller must give monthy his sales to the proper office and the buyer has a frame of time to register his animal, knowing at any time his animals may be inspected. An on failue to regisiter the animal that he may be fined and not alowed to buy anymore of the animals that require permits.

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"Tonights forcast..... Dark." Al Sleet, the hippy dippy weather man, George Carlin. You will be missed.
http://schlange-titus.de
http://dght.de

CA had permit requirements for cats and dogs and its yearly. Purely a money maker. You mail in your $15 a year per animal to the state and the only way to NOT pay that is to never take your animal to a vet, because if you don't have a license the vet has to turn you in. No one comes to your house to be sure you can take care of them. No one sees if you are a collector or not.

My cats would cost me $45 per year because I'm a responsible cat owner. The cat collectors pay nothing. Those cats never go to the vet. CA's justification is licensing reunites lost pets and their owners, but so does going to petsmart and getting a tag made for $5. Or a one time fee of $45 to get your animal microchipped.

If you have an animal that is NOT sterilized, its $150 a year, unless you are a certified breeder or a ranch dog. Then its $45 a year.

Here is a link
Animal License Fees, Animal Care and Regulation - County of Sacramento, California, USA

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My name is Liz
Do what's best for the animal, not what's best for you.

i would support it. others have stated 'it would stop impulse buying'.
however, there needs to be a 'possibly' added to that.

mainly because of how it would be enforced. yea, a permit can be required, but whats going to physically force a pet shop to verify a person has a permit before selling them a snake? what will make a private breeder do it?

as an example,
painted turtles and red eared sliders are native to PA, thus by law pet shops are not allowed to sell them except to schools for educational purposes unless they are...i think 4" or longer in shell length. however, theres a pet shop near me that will sell baby painted turtles and red eared sliders to anybody that asks for one. they do tell you that they aren't supposed to, but if you ask to buy one anyway they will sell one to you.

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i'd be better off opening my own small zoo.