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Frank Needs Some Help

This is what our member has to say: Originally Posted by Moshpitrockchick As for telling the age, it's impossible. We could tell you if it looked juvenile or mature from a picture, ...


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Frank Needs Some Help



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  #21  
09-10-2007, 08:34 AM
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Re: Frank Needs Some Help

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moshpitrockchick View Post

As for telling the age, it's impossible. We could tell you if it looked juvenile or mature from a picture, but dragon size depends upon their care so all information points toward her being small for her age no matter how old she is.
Ok, well... Since I don't know how big a bearded dragon is supposed to be, I would have no idea whether she is average or small for her age. I figured I would measure her and maybe that would give you more info.
She is 8.5 inches snout to vent, 17 inches nose to tail and a full ten inches around the middle. I measured a full inch in the space between her eyes. Hope that helps...

  #22  
 I helped move the meter!   09-10-2007, 09:29 AM
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Re: Frank Needs Some Help

Shes about right for an adult but then again some Bearded Dragons grow faster than other so its really hard to tell age by size. Most adults get to be 17-22 inches give or take with tail nips and such (LOL).
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  #23  
09-10-2007, 11:36 AM
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Re: Frank Needs Some Help

So, again on Frank... I've been noticing some things.... For a week or so prior to last week's big poop, she was doing a lot of digging in her substrate, as I mentioned earlier. Since changing the substrate out the other day though, she is very restless, pacing a lot, seems to be looking for something outside of her cage, and is trying to get behind the rocks she usually basks on. She has had no interest in her food the last couple days. Yesterday, she spent the morning jumping off her rocks into her water dish, and following her bath this a.m., she spent a couple hours just sitting with her hind end in the water dish. Now, she's exited the water bowl and is back to pacing. I don't know if she objects to the new carpeting, but I really am starting to wonder/worry that Frank is planning on laying eggs, or thinks she might be going to lay some eggs. As I have absolutely NO idea of whether Frank has ever been bred, and have read they retain sperm, is it possible that 3-4 months after the fact, she could be laying eggs? If so, what should I be watching for? Is it safe to x-ray her? I'm thinking I might run her into work tonight and take a film, which should let me know if there are either eggs or an impaction, shouldn't it? If there are, by chance, fertile eggs, would this be harmful to them?

Thanks for all your help

  #24  
 I helped move the meter!   09-10-2007, 11:54 AM
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Re: Frank Needs Some Help

That definitely sounds like she is gravid. Does she look lumpy? Digging and going off food is a def sign. You need to create a laying area for her. Here is info how to do so and also a link to that section..
http://reptileguides.herpcenter.com/...-t16.html?t=16

Egg-laying generally occurs between three to five weeks after a successful breeding. Signs of a gravid female include restlessness, continuous digging, rapid weight gain and lack of interest in food, or an increased appetite quickly followed by a decreased appetite. A gravid female will dig what she believes to be a thirty feet deep burrow before she will lay her eggs, and needs to be provided with a suitable egg-laying area. A box filled 8-12 inches deep with moist, but not wet, soil and vermiculite, or an equally as suitable medium, should be placed in the enclosure. Alternatively the female can be taken out and placed in a separate enclosure away from the male, where you may design an egg-laying site. Allowing the female to be on her own while gravid will decrease the stress that she encounters. The absence of an egg-laying site may lead to problems such as dystocia (egg-binding). Symptoms of egg retention include lethargy, depression and non-responsiveness. Pre- egg-laying, the female will dig continuously for up to two weeks and will completely lose her appetite for a few days, allowing more room for the eggs to develop. Once she lays the eggs, and has buried them in the designated site, she will rest and then begin feeding to gain her weight and nutrients that are used up in developing the eggs. Bearded dragons have no parenting instincts and therefore, when the offspring hatch, they should not be placed back in the adults′ enclosure, where they will simply represent food to a hungry "mother" or "father".

Bearded dragons can lay both fertile or infertile. If you dont know if she has been breed or not, it will be up to you if you want to incubate them. Most of the time fertile ones will be white and firm, slugs are normally yellowish and soft.
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  #25  
09-10-2007, 02:29 PM
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Re: Frank Needs Some Help

Quote:
Originally Posted by venus View Post
That definitely sounds like she is gravid. Does she look lumpy? Digging and going off food is a def sign. You need to create a laying area for her. Here is info how to do so and also a link to that section..
http://reptileguides.herpcenter.com/...-t16.html?t=16
So, because I am both neurotic and impatient, I decided to run Frank down to work for some films. Mind you, we don't treat reptiles, so not our area of expertise, but its just X-rays, right? Anyhow... Frank is most definitely a girl, and Frank is most definitely looking like she has lots and lots of eggs. From the OUTSIDE she doesn't seem that fat (though I did notice her gaining weight, I attributed this to the fact that she was thin when she got here). I had thought yesterday when I gently palpated her abdomen, that I felt some roundish objects in there, and again today. So, now I know why, and I imagine this explains her weird behavior of late.
Is it LIKELY she will have fertile eggs at this point if by chance she was mated prior to my acquiring her about 3 months ago?
Anyhow... I'm relieved its eggs and not an impaction, and suppose I'm going to have to go figure out how to get her to lay them now.
Thanks to all for the help. I'm sure I'll have more questions later

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 I helped move the meter!   09-10-2007, 03:29 PM
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Re: Frank Needs Some Help

Once they become gravid they lay within 4-5 weeks. Then sometimes they have more than one clutch every 4ish weeks. So if this is the first lay since you have had her I doubt they are fertile.
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  #27  
09-14-2007, 05:47 PM
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Re: Frank Needs Some Help

Wow, I have no advice what-so-ever. I just wanted to chime in and say good luck You sure got more than you bargained for with this adoption, lol. This has been an interesting story so far, make sure you keep us updated.

  #28  
09-14-2007, 07:45 PM
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Re: Frank Needs Some Help

WoW! Just started reading this thread. We have 3 dragons. 2 male 1 female. Never breed ours. But yea she needs a box to bury her eggs.

You do need to make sure the temp are warm in the cage. We use a regular bulb for basking and a separate UVB. I would also ask what time are you feeding? She needs light(UVB) for at minimum an hour, better two hours after eating. That is how they process the food. We have our cages all on timers. ALso the room we are in can get cool in the winter so we have a space heater with a temp sensor on it.

On what to feed, I would stay away from meal worms too fatty. Crix for adults we give around a dozen, young guys get 50-60. We feed mustard greens. We also trained our guys to take the pellets, we do this because we have hurricanes! If we can get crix or greens, they need to eat.

Oh, poop schedule is different for all of our guys. But they all go at least once or twice a week. But warm soaks are a great solution.

That is all I can think of at the moment. We love our dragons!

Good Luck!

Kate

  #29  
09-14-2007, 09:46 PM
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Re: Frank Needs Some Help

wow! just started reading this thread tonight. Our Bearded Dragons liked fresh green beans the best of all the veggies. they would want you to sit and hold them and feed them by hand. Kai always wanted to be spoonfed baby food and soaked pellets for regular food "crickets, yuck". He didn't care for those crickets at all, a few silk worms here and there were fine though. Dante preferred to eat on his own thank you kindly. His green beans though had to be hand fed attention time. Try some green beans and patience. They also loved baby food fruit mixtures from time to time, especially mango. You sound like you are really working hard at trying to get her situated and healthy. Good luck, I agree with much of what has been said so far. They do love their heat areas. She does need an egg laying box though.

  #30  
09-15-2007, 05:57 AM
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Re: Frank Needs Some Help

So - an update... Frank has done nothing of note all week. I did give her a box filled with a mix of moistened organic potting soil and peat moss and put it in her cage. I'm not convinced its big enough, but its the biggest contained I can fit in the cage (though I can put a deeper one in, anything wider/longer won't fit and still leave her space to move). She has spent most of her time sitting in it or half in, half out of her water dish, but has discontinued most of her digging activities.

She still doesn't particularly want her crickets, but is eating her waxworms quite well. She seems to have her normal activity level, or somewhat increased, and despite the fact that the thermometer reads about 90 degrees under her heating lamp, she does NOT prefer to sit under it and continually gets as far away from it as possible.

I've had 4 (small animal) vets review her x-rays - 2 think she's got eggs, 2 think that if she does, they haven't calcified yet so they aren't sure, but both are comparing to their memory of turtle eggs, so I'm back to being paranoid that she's constipated. On x-ray, her abdomen is definitely filled with numerous, symetrical and same-sized round objects that to ME, look like eggs - when I saw the film, it was my first thought. They seem much to uniform to be anything BUT eggs, but what do I know... we don't treat reptiles. I've seen thousands of x-rays and IMHO, it does not look like feces, at least not the feces in a dog or cat, nor does it look like the feces she has produced thus far.
If anyone out there is accustomed to looking at Bearded Dragon x-rays, at what point, if any, do the eggs appear calcified? Since I have no idea how long Frank has had eggs (going with the egg assumption), I would have no idea whether she's "overdue" or not, if she's eggbound or not... Her behavior indicates (as some of you have agreed) that she's wanting to lay eggs, except that since the addition of a laying box, she's discontinued her digging.
I've made an appointment with the exotic specialist, but can't get in until Monday, so any advice between now and then would be appreciated.

Many thanks

 


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