I ended up here on Herp Center because my kids kept catching toads, snakes, turtles and skinks and insisting that they wanted to keep them as pets. I told them that I think it's a bad idea to take animals from the wild population to make them pets, particularly amphibians and box turtles (which are seriously threatened by human destruction of their habitats and in the case of eastern box turtles, by over-collection from sensitive wild populations). So we ended up getting our leopard geckos as a way of letting the kids have reptile pets they could handle and love. I explained that these geckos come from captive-bred lines, which means that wild populations weren't being damaged by the pet trade.

Now, of course I know that captive-bred animals come from lines that lead back (in many cases not so many generations) to wild-caught ancestors. So the ethical/conservation difference may be negligible in some cases. And if you don't know an animal's provenance, it's possible that an animal you buy in a pet store may even be wild-caught.

I've noticed that some folks here talk about keeping wild-caught animals as pets, and I'm not trying to pass judgment or anything, in any way. But I am interested in discussing this ethical/conservation issue with others who may have a different view, particularly since folks here in many cases have much more knowledge of these animals than I do. Would anyone be interested in sharing your views on this, in the friendly and educational way that things are discussed in these forums? My view may be ill-informed or naive, and I'd be open to learning more.

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Amy

Whooooo boy! This one is going to be a doozy!
This is a very controversial subject with many keepers and I can see both sides. In my opinion IF you are capable of providing the proper care and IF the animal is not threatened, endangered, or other wise protected, I see no reason a person could not collect a wild caught animal for a pet. Thats the way many children become interested in these animals. In fact thats the way most of us "old timers" got started in the hobby to begin with. There simply wasn't the availability of captive bred specimens that we are now blessed with.
However there are some drawbacks. Wild caught specimens will not be accustomed to captivity and proximity of humans and this will cause them stress until they are properly acclimated. They will also most likely carry diseases and parasites that the stress of captivity may give the upper hand and require extensive veterinary treatment for them to survive. Unfortunately many of the same people that aquire a wild caught animal look at it as being "free" so they don't want to spend money on vet bills. These animals also have become imprinted on certain types of food sources and may be difficult to get them to accept the commercially available foods.
For beginners I still feel it is preferable to start out with captive bred animals as this bypasses many of the problems that a new keeper really isn't up to facing.

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Merlin,
What's Life Without A Little Magic!

Controversy, here!!! Nonsense.

Okay, Merlin is correct, but you also have to look at it from a locality point of view, what may be threatened or endangered in one area may be considered an invasive species in another. Always consult your local department of fish and game before removing a specimen. Here in Jersey people are always picking up turtles, since you can't buy them here why not just catch them. The Eastern Box Turtle is about to be put on the endangered species list, something I never thought I would see. Habitat destruction has caused breeding population decline, so remember that with every animal you remove from the wild you are also removing future generations of that animal.

There are enough available captive bred animals out there that the need to remove them is really non-existent. Instead of them taking them as pets, maybe get them a cheap digital camera, so they can keep the memories to share with their future generations.

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Answers are great. But I prefer questions!

Visit me at www.jaysreptiles.com

Thanks for your reply, Merlin. I think your perspective makes a lot of sense. I do put an enormous value on children learning about and becoming interested in nature. I agree that if someone is going to keep a (non-threatened, non-endangered) wild animal in captivity, that person should be well-informed on the care of that species. It's a great learning opportunity for children and adults alike.

I just know of so many kids who come to our yard (a couple acres with a creek and woods) and want to take home a "pet." They don't know how to care for it and see the animal as not much more than a novelty. They may not be able to get it to eat (because it's stressed, as you mention) or they may "enjoy" it to death (my daughter can't keep her hands off toads, and carries them all over the house in her plastic pocketbook if I don't keep an eye on her).

And though it may seem like there's an endless supply of Eastern American Toads in our yard, the wetlands all over the region are being destroyed or damaged, the "empty" land is being filled with houses and roads and shopping centers, and amphibian breeding grounds are disappearing. So each animal may make a big difference. Now, maybe there are enough five-lined skinks breeding in the dead leaves and woodpiles and rock walls that their population is burgeoning -- I dunno. There certainly appears to be no shortage of ring-necked snakes in our yard. But if kids don't have an interested, involved adult helping them (if the kids aren't old enough to do the research themselves), the animals suffer.

But as a 4-H herp guy told me recently, a few (or even a few dozen) toads or snakes that fall prey to childish over-attention may save the lives of thousands more when that child becomes an adult who protests the draining of a wetland, due to the love of wild things s/he developed in childhood. So it's a complicated issue to consider. I'm such a softie for all living things. I don't even kill bugs that come in the house -- I put them outside.

I knew this topic might be copntroversial when I introduced it, and I certainly hope it doesn't cause a problem. I've seen such amazing friendliness, maturity and consideration in the interactions on this forum that I thought we could handle it. I've been very impressed by the people here.

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Amy

Yes, Jay, I just recently learned how threatened the Eastern Box Turtle is. I read on one site how the removal of just one or two individuals per generation can have a devastating effect on a local breeding population. Photography is exactly how I help my kids deal with not being able to keep their finds. We also talk a lot about how we have to let the animal go so that it can survive and breed and have babies, so we can someday find the babies. And of course we're filling up the dining room with geckos and soon a snake, so there are animals they can keep!

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Amy

Outstanding Amy, another idea is to get them each to start a journal. Write down what they see and draw a picture. Then fill pages with found items like feathers, leaves and the like. Have you ever seen the show backyard habitat, maybe a project like that is just what they need.

We are all here to teach and share, the fact that we are the friendliest group is a bonus!!!

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Answers are great. But I prefer questions!

Visit me at www.jaysreptiles.com

I believe that with the number and variety of captive bred animals in the pet trade there really is no need to collect wild caught animals. You can find almost any species you want almost anywhere and with internet sales it is very easy to get them. I believe that some people collect WC because they don't want to pay for the same animal in a pet shop, where depending on species they can cost quite a lot. But as Merlin said, why then would you pay a 100-200$ vet bill when you can just catch another one.

I guess if the animal is not threatened and not protected it is up to the individual. I personally don't see a need for it like there was 20-30 yrs ago.

You did have a good question that I would like to hear the answer to. How do we know whether or not an animal from a pet store isn't WC? Beyond asking the employee that is.

Jay- That is a brilliant idea! Insert the pics with the things you found in the habitat of that animal, simply brilliant!

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~Chris

It is better I think to reach for the stars than to sit flustered because you know you cannot reach them, at least he who reaches will get a good view, a good stretch and perhaps even a low hanging apple for the effort.
-R.A. Salvatore

I must admit...i have kept some wild caught stuff...never bought it only if I caught it myself! There are some super nice species here that no-one breeds... and I intent to change that...lol

I know I can provide a good environment...quarantine is a must tho. If the snake does not adjust to captivity then it must be released, but must never have crossed paths with another pet snake. This could do severe damage to wild populations if an exotic disease gets loose...

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Don't be jealous the voices only speak to me...

www.herprecon.org

I personally wouldn't do it. I think if you can properly care for the animal and it's not to stressed out then I don't understand why some people have hairy monsters at other people about it.

Wow,,,,how to reply without ruffling feathers ?
I am dead set against taking wild animals and putting them in captivation. (I know,,,,,all our captive bred have direct lineage to wild caught and without them we would have none) But IMO, due to loss of habitat and how endangered or threatened each species becomes, I feel they should be left in the wild. However,,,,,,,on a side note: We here in this household will take a wild specimen, observe it for a day or 2, then let it back where we caught it (we DO NOT let that specimen in the house for fear of infecting our captive herps or them infecting the wild species)

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Ken
"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference in the world. But, the Marines don't have that problem." -- Ronald Reagan