It doesnt matter if you take out the uneaten crix, they still poo all over while waiting to be eaten, and they do poo an awful lot, I have noticed since using this lino, after 10 mins there is cricket poo, and when you can see it you just have to clean it lol, its a pain,

A lot of pets kept in captivity live in a different enviroment to what they would if in the wild, admitedly you try to imitate it as much as possible, but out in the wild a Leopard Geckos wouldnt live in a small glass critter cage, they have the freedom to roam.

I don't think there is one person on this forum with a unhappy pet kept on paper towels, a pet on paper towels is a happy pet, than one on sand with impaction.

Lets think about this for a minute. One of the main arguements in the substrate discussion revolve around whether or not it "Looks natural". This is much more a concern from the keepers vantage point than the lizards! The lizard couldn't care less what it is walking on as long as its needs are met. Many herps, Leopard Geckos especially are several generations removed from the wild and have no idea what their wild counterparts experience. As much as we do love to credit our reptile pets with a "higher consciousness", we can over do it. I got into a very heated discussion years ago with a keeper who was outraged that someone would keep their herp in a sterilite container as opposed to a several hundred dollar fancy enclosure. Her point was that it "just wasn't right"! Even if the enclosures were the same size the herp just wouldn't be happy in a "cheap plastic" container.

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Merlin,
What's Life Without A Little Magic!

Hello,
I want to hit on a few points here to help explain how some of the impaction risks are most common and preventable.

I will only be speaking on behalf of leopard geckos. The original post has been edited and removed, so I am not 100% certain what this topic is in regards to. (I believe it was a Savannah Monitor.) I did note that a member mentioned leopard geckos and the use of calci sand. This is what my post will be directed at.

That is inaccurate. Calcium deficient reptiles are prone to eat sand as a means to try and increase the calcium in their bodies. However, that does not dictate that healthy reptiles do not consume sand. That belief was brought upon as many reptiles that have become impacted have also experienced other maladies and ailments. Most often, these other problems are associated with calcium and vitamin deficiencies.

There are 2 types of impaction. (Well there is one type of impaction, as the result is always the same. However, there are two "classes" of impaction.)

The first type of impaction is the "Acute" impaction.

An acute impaction is the result of consuming anything that can become logged in the intestinal tract or other vital organs. This can be sand,gravel,rocks,or prey that is too large;among other things. This type of impaction is sudden and the problems that arise will become noticeable far faster than the second class of impaction. In many instances, an observant caretaker will notice behavioral changes with the reptile and after seeking veterinary assistance, will be able to save the reptile.

The second, and far more dangerous type of impaction is the "chronic" impaction.

The term chronic means anything that is persisting for a long period of time or duration. The US National Center for Health Statistics defines it as a condition of 3 months duration or longer.

When the term chronic and impaction are placed together, you now have an impaction that is accumulating over a long duration.

This type of impaction is extremely dangerous because there are very few signs that anything is wrong. In fact, most reptiles that are victims of a chronic impaction will not show many signs of illness until their problems have already surfaced and it is most often too late to do anything about it. (This type of impaction can take years before it shows itself and is noticeable.)

What happens with this type of impaction is that the item in question, most often sand, has individual particles that adhere to the intestinal tract. A majority of the substrate passes, but one or more grains will remain adhered. The intestinal tract now has a tiny speed bump in its lining. In the beginning, this is not much of an issue. Food and other particulates will still pass. However, over time, other grains accumulate and adhere to the initial "speed bump." This in turn,creates a larger "speed bump".

As the "bump" increases in size over time and by accumulation, a dangerous blockage is being created. The opening of the intestinal tract is reduced in circumference dramatically and this makes it more difficult for food and other particulates to pass. The digestive process is slowed down dramatically and the absorption of needed vitamins and nutrients is not being met.

This can cause 2 immediate types of problems. The first is the onset of an acute impaction resulting from the leopard geckos need to add calcium to its diet. Though it is available, the blockage is preventing the necessary amounts to be digested. The primary cause of an acute impaction though is due to a lack of vitamins and nutrients in the diet. The Leo in turn begins eating the substrate directly in an attempt to gain the required nutrients. Now you have an acute impaction that has amassed from a chronic impaction.

What could also happen is toxicity. A leopard gecko that has either an acute impaction or a chronic impaction will defecate less and less. In some instances, defecation ceases all together. This causes a buildup of "toxic" substances in the body. With the severe accumulation of sand in the intestinal tract, stomach, and bowel; the reptile can not pass any of these substances and their blood becomes "poisoned". This can lead to a sudden, "unexplainable" death in the leopard gecko. It can also lead to tremors, convulsions, lack of appetite, lethargy,etc.

Particulate substrates are always going to be a controversial debate.Every reptile that is subjected to particulate substrates is going to be subjected to the chance that their reptile is going to succumb to an impaction.(Every enthusiast agrees that the chance is always there.) The chance of an impaction is more severe in smaller reptiles that have smaller intestinal tracts to begin with.

With leopard geckos, it is highly advised to use alternative substrates. Shale,granite, and other larger "rocky" materials can create a beautiful enclosure without the chance that the substrate will be consumed. Also, fabrics can make wonderful substrates as well.

Here is a picture of one of the enclosures that I have designed for my Leopard Geckos. notice that the substrate appears to be sand. Also note that their are live cacti in the tank.


Merlin was correct. "The ignition temperature of paper is 451 degrees Fahrenheit." (Noted by the Village of Gurnee [IL] Fire Department, 1997-1998.

Here is another reference to that lists a much higher range of temperature before paper will ignite(Note the extreme temperatures that are required however in order for a fire to break out.The reptile would be dead from heat exhaustion,dehydration,and "cooking' long before the paper were to ignite.)

The ignition temperature for paper is reported to be 450 C (842 F), and the flash point of paper is estimated to be 350 C (662 F). The reference for all of this information is the Handbook of Physical and Mechanical Testing of Paper and Paperboard Volume 2; Edited by Richard Mark.

Calci sand

Calci sand is another whole topic, so I will only hit on it briefly. I would suggest fine playground sand for ANY reptile long before I advised anyone to use Calci sand. Calci sand is not digestible like they claims and is made of substances that are known to reduce the acid content in the stomach. While your reptile is consuming CS, it is increasing an impaction based on its food opposed to the sand. With the stomach acids being neutralized, prey such as mealworms and crickets are far less likely to be digested properly. In conjunction with the CS that wasn't digested, this can lead to an impaction. This garbage is far more dangerous than fine sand and should be avoided completely.

I also want to note that impaction is not the only reason to avoid particulate substrates. Male species of many reptile will, at some point, evert their hemipenes. Substrates that could stick to the hemipene or exposed cloaca tissue could then be "inverted" when the hemipenes retract. This could lead to infection and illness.

These are just some things to take into consideration when planning the substrate for any species of reptile.

Very well said Merlin and Rich!

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Some think they can. Some wish they could. Some do.

Yeah, plus Leopard Geckos will sometimes ingest sand after trying to catch a cricket. It doesn't have to be purposely ingested, and it doesn't even have to be sticking to the food. All the leo has to do is miss its target and get a mouthful.

Yeah, as Merlin said, the leo could care less what its tank is like so long as its needs are met. It doesn't know taht its walking on paper towels. All that matters is atht the paper towels pose no danger to them, and they allow for easy cleanup. However, if you want the tank to look natural, sand isn't going to do that for you either. Leopard Geckos are from arid scrublands and rocky wasteland. They don't come from sandy, sahara-type, sand dunes everywhere desert. They don't naturally live on a bunch of sand.

Yeah, and again with the paper towels, any temps that would start that on fire would kill your leo long before the fire started. Plus, if paper towels are such a fire hazard, so would branches in other herp tanks, wood shavings, etc.

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+5 bonus points to whoever finds me a job!

"Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines." - John Benfield

Ok, I'll try to be brief, promise. This is not Stacey, it's Chris.

Long and the short of this whole thing is that we are all doing what we feel is in the best interest of our animals, correct? We all have different experiances and resources at our disposal when we make our habitat descisions. That being the case it really doesn't matter what you use (within reason, no chameleons on trees and vines fashioned from spam, popscicle sticks, and week old jello) as long as you have done your research and are making a (semi) educated choice with the best interest of the animal in mind. That being said, just as you all have said that the sand is not safe for the lizards, there is a legitimate safety conscern with the paper, really.

If you lok at the paperwork that comes with any lamp, IR emitter, heat rock (thermostat or not), Under Tank Heater, etc there is a warning about fire hazards. Zoomed's Under Tank Heater actually adresses the issue of heat build up if there is not good ventillation under the tank and recomends using cage carpet (perhaps we can see this product as a happy medium in this discussion) under any light weight substrate (bark, shavings, etc) to prevent burns to the animal and a build up of heat that could be a fire hazard. YES I knowthat the animal would die at temps well below the flash point of paper (451 F is a nice reference for all those Ray Bradberry fans, but it can be significantly lower depending on several factors, and it takes a bit more effort to get wood to burn) but if something goes wrong in the tank it is bad if the animal dies, but even worse if a fuel source in the tank starts a small fire big enough to become a BIG fire. Before anyone jumps on me as paranoid, I know what I am talking about, I was a firefighter a few years ago, It doesn't take very much to get some things going. But anyway=-) so we shall come to an impass on this one I suppose. In the grand scheme of things though, It doesn't make any difference what it's on, in, whatever, The lizard cares about this little to none, and really they are lucky to have us. Most live a good life, well, if not sceriously over, fed and outliving their cousins in the wild by leaps and bounds. No spiders biting back while being eaten, no weeks on end with not a bug in sight, no predator looking at them as lunch because its been weeks on end since they ate. But to finish this thing up (I heard that!!! I know I am long winded, but you didn't have to say "thank God this idiots mindless dribble is almost over"! Just look at it from my perspective I type very slow!) We are all doing what we think is best, right or wrong, if it works it works. I'll be careful and provide some nice catterpillars (the exlax of the animal world) and keep a watchful eye on my reptiles' health and you guys try not to burn your houses down and we'll all keep sharing some really great and sometimes not so great ideas to make our guys lives that much better.

hope I didn't instigate bulliten board death match,
chris

p.s.
Another idea, for smaller guys like leopards who like burrows and tunnels try hamster tubes, not natural looking, but you can burry it or hide it giving a nice non collapsing tunnel that is cheap and easy to clean, a thought. I am not sue if it is flamable or what would happen if eaten with a side of mealworms and a cold beer... =-)

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December 6th is fast appraoching!