Any sites sell water, garter, ribbon, or any other insect and fish eating snakes?

**MoLdYpOtAtOe** · #1 11-06-2004, 04:49 PM

I maybey getting a fish/insect eater instead of a corn snake. My girlfriend does not want to be in the presence of me when I feed mousies to my snakes... She used to never care. So does anyone know where to get a insect and fish eater. Insects alone are fine with me.

**furryscaly** · #2 11-06-2004, 07:36 PM

Well, the only true insect eating snakes are the green snakes, but some garters have been known to accept a few insects. This is pretty rare though. Garters feed primarily on amphibians, fish, and worms. Be very careful though, I have garters myself. I used to feed them fish, but that nearly killed them cause the enzyme thiaminase is present in fish like goldfish and minnows. What it does is it destroys thiamine (vitamin B1). This causes the snake to go into seizures, develop brain damage, and eventually die unless the condition is reversed. I now feed my garters mice, but Snaker has permanent brain damage as a result of his previous fishy diet. To actually get them to accept the mice though, I have to rub the mice on one of my frogs to make them small like food.

**Toadie78** · #3 11-06-2004, 07:41 PM

There is stuff that u can get that makes mice smell like fish or frogs I think. i know they have stuff for snakes that normally eat other reptiles to make the mice smell like a lizard or snake.

**MoLdYpOtAtOe** · #4 11-06-2004, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by furryscaly

Well, the only true insect eating snakes are the green snakes, but some garters have been known to accept a few insects. This is pretty rare though. Garters feed primarily on amphibians, fish, and worms. Be very careful though, I have garters myself. I used to feed them fish, but that nearly killed them cause the enzyme thiaminase is present in fish like goldfish and minnows. What it does is it destroys thiamine (vitamin B1). This causes the snake to go into seizures, develop brain damage, and eventually die unless the condition is reversed. I now feed my garters mice, but Snaker has permanent brain damage as a result of his previous fishy diet. To actually get them to accept the mice though, I have to rub the mice on one of my frogs to make them small like food.

I knew this, but I planned on feeding both fish, worms, and other insects. But one thing I want to know is if feeding earth worms more than fish would and keeping a low amount of fish but still about 1 fish a week would be alright. I am looking to buy waters, garters, greens, and ribbons mainly. But any thing that is a medium level snake is fine for me. As long as it eats a mixture of fish and insects. Or insects alone.

**furryscaly** · #5 11-07-2004, 08:34 PM

If you want something that eats ins3ects, get a green snake. You'll have a tough time getting garters to accept them. My garters completely ignore the presence of crickets, mealworms, and waxworms. Earthworms they'll eat, but a diet rich in earthworms isn't going to give them the right nutrition. I only offer worms as a treat in the summer. Plus, if you use wild collected worms, you have to be very careful where you get them from.

A fish here and there won't hurt, as long as you offer something else to make up for the sudden loss in B1. If you can get frogs, tadpoles, or salamanders from a bait shop, they'll make a tasty snack for a garter, provided they're the right size. There are also fish that carry much less thiaminase that you can offer to your garters. Thiaminase is concentrated in higher amounts in oily fishes, like cod, carp (including goldfish and koi), and less, but still too much, in minnows (hint: rosy reds are a color morph of the fat-head minnow). Fish that are much safer include danios, tetras, and guppies. Unfortunately, these fish are also more expensive and significantly smaller, so you'd need to buy a lot of them to satisfy your snake's appetite. Avoid types of catfish and sticklebacks (hint: corydoras are a type of catfish) as they have dangerous spines that could fatally would a snake attempting to swallow one. Basically, if you want a snake that you don't need mice for, my advice is get a green snake, or don't get a snake at all.

**MoLdYpOtAtOe** · #6 11-07-2004, 08:47 PM

I have looked up many care sheets a couple weeks ago on rough and smoothe green snakes. They say most are wc and are hard feeders. Though I have seen some for sale at lllreptile.com. What's ypouropinion on rough greens? I think they are beautiful. But any how I guess I am going to have to beg my girlfriend to accept a rat eater.. Or I may have the urge to sneak a corn in my house.

**Jay DeMore** · #7 11-07-2004, 08:48 PM

I keep a ribbon and garter together in one of my enclosed pond tanks, see this article http://www.herpcenter.com/article.php?c=40 , I feed 8-12 small goldfish every other week with Quartered f/t pinkies on the odd weeks. They are healthy and happy. The problem is that neither species is real good for holding, they both will musk you and they are very fast.

**MoLdYpOtAtOe** · #8 11-07-2004, 08:53 PM

musking is fine over here. But any ways I am leaning towards the rough green. I'm going to call lllreptile tomorrow and see if they're rough greens are wc or cb. Hopefully they will be truthful. They should be, they never have lied to me yet.

Jay, can I see one of your pond tanks? It sounds pretty interesting.

**furryscaly** · #9 11-07-2004, 09:03 PM

If you went with Jay's strategy of having mice in the diet along with fosh, then fish will work. As for green snakes, I think they are extremely beautiful, but as you said, most are WC and often don't adapt well to captivity. Like Jay said, garters and other small snakes (including greens) are like small, fast lizards in that they're more for looking at than handling. They really don't like being handled and musking is a defensive maneauver they use when they feel threatened. My garters have never musked me (but I've been musked by others, yuck!) but I don't handle them often either. Probably take them out of the cage once every couple months and thats it.

Hey Jay, if ya feed your snakes minnows, they'll get less thiamninase than with the goldfish, and minoows are less expensive too. Just an idea, there's nothing wrong with your current diet. If you get minnows from a baitshop though, you have to inspect the bag for any sticklebacks that accidentally wind up with the minnows.

**Jay DeMore** · #10 11-07-2004, 09:08 PM

Actually it's a mix of rosie reds and golds, whatever they have on hand.


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