Dubia Roach Diet

Hey guys, just wanted to know what you guys think of Beneful Original Dry Dog Food as the staple protein source for my Dubia colony. Here's the link :Beneful® Original Dry Dog Food | Beneful®

METABOLIZABLE ENERGY (ME)
360kcal/cup

GUARANTEED ANALYSIS
25.0%CRUDE PROTEIN (MIN)
10.0%CRUDE FAT (MIN)
4.0%CRUDE FIBER (MAX)
14.0%MOISTURE (MAX)
1.5%LINOLEIC ACID (MIN)
1.1%CALCIUM (CA) (MIN)
175 mg/kg IRON (FE) (MIN)
0.2 mg/kg SELENIUM (SE) (MIN)
10,000 IU/kg VITAMIN A (MIN

INGREDIENTS:
Ground yellow corn, chicken by-product meal, corn gluten meal, whole wheat flour, animal fat preserved with mixed-tocopherols (form of Vitamin E), rice flour, beef, soy flour, water, meat and bone meal, propylene glycol, sugar, tricalcium phosphate, phosphoric acid, salt, animal digest, potassium chloride, sorbic acid (a preservative), dried peas, dried carrots, calcium propionate (a preservative), choline chloride, l-Lysine monohydrochloride, Vitamin E supplement, zinc sulfate, red 40, ferrous sulfate, manganese sulfate, niacin, yellow 6, yellow 5, Vitamin A supplement, blue 2, calcium carbonate, copper sulfate, Vitamin B-12 supplement, brewers dried yeast, calcium pantothenate, thiamine mononitrate, garlic oil, pyridoxine hydrochloride, riboflavin supplement, Vitamin D-3 supplement, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of Vitamin K activity), calcium iodate, folic acid, biotin, sodium selenite.

Hi!

You shouldn't feed dog and cat foods as a gut-load. There are a variety of reasons why.

First of all, this is a dubia diet recommended to me by Jarich, another experienced member:
"alfalfa, oats, squash, collard greens, green beans, whole grain corn flour, organic cheerios and calcium carbonate"

I feed this diet as well as bok choy occasionally and Repashy's Bug Burger.

Reasons why dog/cat foods don't make good gut-loads:
1. The protein is TOO HIGH!
You've quoted Beneful at 25% protein. Roaches do best with protein levels around 13 to 15%. Higher than this and the adults store excess energy consumed as nitrogenous components, specifically uric acid, for use later. Feeding roaches with these reserve energy stores can contribute to gout in reptiles.

Sources:
Reptile Resources :: Nutrition Articles :: Can Feeder Insect Diets Contribute To Gout In Reptiles? - Repashy Ventures - Distributor Center

Kells, SA, et al. 1999. Estimating nutritional status of German cockroaches, Blattella germanica (L.) (Dictyoptera: Blattellidae), in the field. Journal of Insect Physiology. Vol 45: pp 709-717.

2. The preservatives used in the dog and cat foods can be dangerous to reptiles.

From Wayne (Infernalis) and savannahmonitor.co
Phosphates in food!

3. Food colorings shouldn't even be fed to dogs and cats.

Honestly, Beneful and most other commercial dog and cat foods are BARELY acceptable foods for mammalian companion animals, let alone as an insect gut-load for your sav. IMO commercial diets aren't even acceptable for use with dogs and cats.

PS

"meat and bone meal" can literally be anything--- dogs and cats euthanized at city shelters and sold to rendering plants, euthanized/dead zoo animals, road kill, leather jackets, leather shoes, etc.

"animal digest" and "animal fat" can come from ANY animal

"propylene glycol" is the main ingredient in deodorant and is also used in antifreeze. It's added to keep dog food from drying out. it's been banned by the FDA for use in cat food due to it causing blood disorders like Heinz body anemia.

Not dubias but I have discoids.

While I use Dog food it makes up a small portion of my roaches diet. I feed about equal part of dog food, alfalfa, fish food, whole grain, and baby cereal. I blend it all together. I keep fresh produce such as carrots ,kale , squash, apples, and oranges available and always have water gel available.




Yet again I see this mentioned as high protein diet isn't supposed to be good for the reptiles, but low protein diet is not good for the roaches. I read on a roach breeders site that under about 18% protein roaches start wing nibble ing on each other. I believe this to be true as I had wing nibbling going on before I added dog food and fish flakes to my chick mash diet I was providing.

While dog food may not be the best food for dogs it doesn't out right kill them usually. I do agree with Aja, that most are barely worthy of being on shelves. When selecting dog and cat foods I suggest looking for "Feed Tested" rather than formulated. Formulated gives you alot of the garbage Aja mentions(i.e. leather)

Not to say high protein levels don't cause this because some dog foods are as high as 35% or more protein.

I do recommend you use a better grade dog food than that if you are going to use dog food however. Beneful is a garbage dog food filled with perservatives, dyes, and fillers.
Get a dog food that is a single color/shade and the first two or three ingredients are something you would eat..... not ground corn or by products.

I wouldn't even feed Beneful to my dog!

Better dog foods are going to have higher protein and none of the garbage found in commercial dog foods

Using the Bug Burger has prevented the wing nibbling.

I don't want to make this a discussion about dog food but the quality of dog food doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the % protein. I have never really looked into the bug burger, actually only just recently heard of it. Care to elaborate on it?

Originally Posted by Rakoladycz

I don't want to make this a discussion about dog food but the quality of dog food doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the % protein. I have never really looked into the bug burger, actually only just recently heard of it. Care to elaborate on it?

DOG FOOD COMMENTS:
I promise I won't derail this thread and make it about dog food lol but I do want to say that...
The quality of dog food definitely correlates with percent protein. Commercial dog foods use discarded items like brains, feet, feathers, and beaks, and of course previously mentioned unsavory meat sources, while higher quality meat-based, by-product, and filler-free foods are using choice pieces like muscle tissue, heart, kidneys, liver, lung, etc. and thus a higher percentage of the food is actually protein which results in a higher percentage overall. Protein in foods like Pedigree is typically listed as around 20 to 25%
("senior" and "large breed" levels) while the protein in foods made by and Blue are upwards of 25%, with the food being 80 to 90% meat protein depending on the formula. You can only do so much with corn and soy.

Of course, this is assuming that we're just referring to standard adult dog foods because there are some specialized formulas that are healthy but have protein levels of 20 to 21% (Natural Balance LID).

My issue with commercial diets is with the nasty chemicals etc. in the food, not with the corn, etc. I am curious about how the amino acid content might affect reptiles.

BUG BURGER:
The bug burger is basically a powdered gut-load to which you add water then microwave; It turns into a patty when it cools. You can also boil water and add it to the powder, then let it cool. It's just like making Jello. It's got respectable levels of calcium and other vitamins and minerals, but the calcium isn't so high that it kills the insects. The ingredients are as follows:

INGREDIENTS: Alfalfa Meal, Flax Meal, Corn Meal, Potato Granules, Brewers Dried Yeast, Pea Protein Isolate, Dried Kelp, Calcium Carbonate, Carrageenan, Konjac, Carob Bean Gum, Guar Gum, Dried Krill, RoseHips, Cinnamon, Calendula Flower, Marigold Flower Extract, Phaffia Rhodozyma Yeast, Paprika Extract, Spirulina Algae, Turmeric, Salt, Potassium Citrate, Magnesium Gluconate, Canthaxanthin, Malic Acid, Calcium Propionate, Methylparaben, and Potassium Sorbate (as mold inhibitors), Lecithin, Rosemary Extract and Mixed Tocopherols (as preservatives), Vitamins (Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D Supplement, Choline Chloride, Ascorbic Acid, Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Beta Carotene, Pantothenic Acid, Riboflavin, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Mononitrate, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex, Folic Acid, Biotin, Vitamin B-12 Supplement).

GUARANTEED ANALYSIS: Crude Protein min. 20%, Crude Fat min. 5%, Crude Fat max. 8%, Crude Fiber max. 12%, Moisture max. 8%, Ash max. 10%, Calcium min. 5%, Calcium max. 6%, Phosphorus min. 0.5%.

Source: Repashy Superfoods :: RETAIL :: By Product Name :: Bug Burger :: BUG BURGER 4 oz BAG - Repashy Ventures - Distributor Center

I was referring more to the label %'s and not by-products. I was referring to any dog food available to the public that brand made at that "level". Not necessarily a prescription diet but yet any of their formulas. We are not limited here we are feeding bugs!


The bug burger sounds interesting. Something to consider adding in anyway.

What are the relative benefits of discoids v. dubias?